...then why aren't there any celebrations? The frantic media is placing this latest debt "deal" in the win column for the extremist, racist, terrorist "Tea Party", but that may simply be more gamesmanship to rally their base.
I'm not happy with this bill; the truth is, I doubt anyone is happy with it. I'm very uncomfortable with the fact that our national defense will be treated as a bargaining chip, and that our biggest fiscal problems, social security, medicare, and medicaid, are exempt from the first round of cuts. I'm disgusted with the $$$ amount of the cuts in discretionary spending; they are, in effect, slicing a few days worth of spending spread out over ten years. WTF? What is that going to solve?
All that being said, I would like the TP to sign off on this deal, then kick it to the progressive caucus in the Senate. Let the big spenders own the default. Conservatives need to turn their attention to drafting top-notch candidates for the 2012 election. After the election, if conservatives own both houses of congress and the presidency, we can tackle the debt and a balanced budget amendment (and term limits).
What say you, oh wise denizens of TCKT?
Well, that's Krauthammer's plan and I'm behind it. I hate to see all this demagoguing, Dingy Harry was just talking about the 8 million jobs lost by Bush. Then who's up next? Sheila Jackson Lee. It's still just partisan shyte.
ReplyDeleteTom thinks that if this bill doesn't pass BO will invoke the 14th amendment and bypass Congress; I'm not happy with either option. So my hopes for digging us out of this mess rest with the 2012 election.
My opinion is expressed here on the Rubio thread.
ReplyDeleteI think the Tea Party contingent should sign off on this, even the strident among them ... and loudly proclaim it a victory, just less of one than they wanted, for now. Then start building toward 2012 elections on the promise of further improvement. I'd hope even Michelle Bachmann (who I like) could hold her nose and do this...giving the explanation above and pointing out the real prize is in 2012.
I hope they do that as well too, Aridog. It's smart and it's the right thing to do.
ReplyDeleteI'm taking my position based upon Beltway Realpolitik of today. I am beginning to seriously doubt the effectiveness of a debt ceiling. It seems to "guarantee" debts under a false financial condition. Nationally we're paying Visa off with Master-Card and vice versa, never reducing debt, just talking about it and kicking the can back and forth, not even down the field. To me, none of the "cuts" are real overall.
ReplyDeleteI meant, it's smart and it's the right thing for the Tea Party to do.
ReplyDeleteI just watched the House Republican leadership press conference and it appears the bill will pass the House.
Cantor and Ryan didn't sound too happy but they are on board.
Now BO can go to Chicago and have his big birthday bash a fund raiser!!!
ReplyDeleteWhew, that was close!
I still would like to know what "default?" This has been portrayed as though there would be no money to pay anything if the debt limit was not increased. As Aridog said, the Government is using Visa to pay off Mastercard. It was a matter of increasing a credit line, not a matter of authorizing payments.
ReplyDeleteAnd if we are going to continue to go through this charade, why even have a debt ceiling? Why put on all of this political theater if they are just going to raise it anyway. And if so many people in the media and the Democratic Party think that Obama should have just assumed dictatorial powers if no agreement was reached -- why do we have a Congress, anyway?
I would hate to se that happen. The biggest victory we have here is that Obama did not get to the point where he felt he had to bastardize the fourteenth amendment. The Tea Party needs to push the issue even further, until this mess is brought under control.
Umm, is it just me, or does it look to others as though this bill actually does not reduce anything but the Rate Of Increase in spending, while allowing Barry to borrow more than in Any Single Increase in the debt ceiling that has ever been passed before?
ReplyDeleteAll in all, it is nothing more than the same Washington bullshit with a different cast of characters.
So, yes, by all means, the Tea Party SHOULD use this, but not as a minor victory, but as a rallying point to get the current schmucks out, and bring in yet another generation of schmucks who Might Actually DO Something to reduce spending by gov't*, rather than simply reducing the rate it increases.
*Which will go a long way toward reducing the intrusiveness of gov't into our supposedly free lives.
Everyone I talked to today is utterly disgusted by this bill, and all the drama leading up to it.
ReplyDeleteI'm not convinced it will pass anyway. Then what? We'll either be in default, or we'll find out that the shrill "the sky is falling" hysteria was BS from the get-go.
Wow, Gabby Giffords has flown in to vote tonight. Tough lady, and a class act.
ReplyDeleteOkay, the crap sandwich has passed the House. Yippee-fucking-ki-yi-yay.
ReplyDeleteNoah is having a mini-meltdown. He's not fond of crap sandwiches.
All in all, it is nothing more than the same Washington bullshit with a different cast of characters.
ReplyDeleteDWT, two problems.
1) Are am no where close to you geographically.
2) I don't have a cigar to give you anyway.
What a lot of poo. (I heard this in a distinctly British accent in my head)
ReplyDeleteI think I'll go read some escapist literature.
Escapist literature? May I suggest "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest"? Oh wait...you said escapist...
ReplyDelete"What a lot of poo. (I heard this in a distinctly British accent in my head)"
ReplyDeleteWatt ah lott ov pooh.
Yeew wellkom, innit.
I agree with Ari #2 and DWT #8. And of course with afw. I suggest Blindsight by Peter Watts. Vampires and aliens in deep space. Awesome.
ReplyDeleteI'd not get too worked up about the 14th amendment thing - that's just the libosphere yanking our chain (or yanking their own ____, or both).
It was always a bluff. The bond market would have responded with the 3 most terrifying letters in the English language. LOL.
It's a comfort that whatever else Obama et al think they can get away with, they remain afraid of the bond market. And the bond market and the Tea Party are largely on the same page.
Lewy!! ... you're not supposed to "agree" with me, you're supposed to illuminate aspects I fail to consider. I am regressing these days to Cro-Magnon level thought processes ... I need protection from myself!!
ReplyDeleteI only heard two people on the TV news yesterday that I found worth hearing: Paul Ryan and Michelle Bachmann.
I would be interested in your opinion on the question: "Why do we bother with a 'debt ceiling' at all?" Reason I ask ... when has it EVER acted as a "ceiling" at all? Wouldn't the "bond market" as you cite them be more effective an arbitrator of debt limits? If vigorish level interest were to occur, that might dampen spending a tad?
Dang ... this is something I can't cure with my favorite of all homemaker tools ... the 2lb hammer or 9 lb sledge. ~x(
Ari _ good questions... I'll respond a bit later today when I have time...
ReplyDeleteFay - LMAO! I love it SO much!
ReplyDeleteWhen we were in the UK, the lady at the night desk of our inn had a fairly strong accent (although I don't know anything about Brit accents, so I have no idea where she was originally from). Anyway, I asked her for something (I can't remember what it was) and the Brit term was completely different from what I asked for, so it took a moment to sort it out.
We laughed when we figured it out, and she said, "It's all right, love, you're foreign."
I was so astounded - I have never been called foreign before, my first thought was, "I'm AMERICAN!" When I got back up to my room, I couldn't stop laughing - from being called foreign (in her lovely accent) and from my silly reaction of utter shock.
I was so astounded - I have never been called foreign before, my first thought was, "I'm AMERICAN!"
ReplyDeleteRemember - wogs begin at Long Island. ;)
Ari, when has the debt ceiling acted as a ceiling? Well, it took a step in that direction yesterday.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with using the bond market is that by the time it taps you on the shoulder, it's too late. It's a herd, and herds stampede.
E.g. Europe is panicking because Italian and Spanish yields are drifting into the danger zone. Once yields are in the danger zone, debt can no longer be affordably rolled - increased interest rates would render the sovereign insolvent. Once this situation is recognized in the market, yields go up even more - it's a vicious cycle, a positive feedback vortex.
In fact... yeah... U2 begins their song Vertigo with the phrase "Unos, dos, tres, catorce!"... one, two, three, fourteen... if you count the spread of a PIIGs sovereign ten year bond vs the yield on the German bond, that's about the right progression...
imgw:"http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d170/lewy14/Bear20Cavalry.png"
ReplyDeleteAwesome, lewy, LMAO!!
ReplyDeleteI'd love to have the Bear Cavalry ride into the Beltway.
I would be interested in your opinion on the question: "Why do we bother with a 'debt ceiling' at all?" Reason I ask ... when has it EVER acted as a "ceiling" at all?
ReplyDeleteI asked that question on one of the Big sites yesterday.
LOL afw! You furriner you!
ReplyDeleteThe BEST British accent is the "Geordie" accent native to Newcastle (Knew cass ell). And no one does it better than Jimmy Nail a native born son, actor, writer and singer. He starred in a few TV series in the 90's, the best one being Spender. Spender and his ex-con snitch, Stick, ran the gamut of comedy to tragedy. Truly brilliant television.
But the point of this comment is to introduce you to the wonder that is the Geordie accent. So check out this video, part of a Spender episode. Especially savour the comedic brilliance of the restaurant scene at 6.28 of the clip.
Other brilliant Geordies include, my mother (Yay!) Mark Knopfler, Eric Burden, Sting and two dudes from AC/DC.
Oops forgot to mention that Spender was an under-cover cop.
ReplyDeleteRose Tyler: If you are an alien how come you sound like you're from the North?
ReplyDeleteThe Doctor: Lots of planets have a North!
Lewy ... thank you. Your #21 is erudite and pretty much what I suspected. Being a troglodyte on financial affairs, beyond ordinary (boring) investments like stocks and bonds (all the rest of Wall Street issue is Evil!!)I needed the affirmation.
ReplyDeleteHowever, your #22 is the perfect concise version...a bear cavalry! I love it.
Yep, if bears were herd animals (they are on Wall Street, no?)prone to such domestication, then yep, we'd all pretty much be screwed. The stampede mentality seems to be a natural reaction to adverse stimulus, or at least that imagined. Buffalo (market bulls ) are one thing, but bears (those are Griz in the poster ... e.g., dished faces) would add an unmanageable dimension. "Recovery" is hard if you're eaten or just dismembered and scattered for the coyotes.
In short the debt ceiling is a social/political construct to create the illusion of stability/safety even when third grade maths tell us that debt levels are reaching the unsustainable tipping point vis a vis real national productivity. There's that troglodyte again :D
Does Facebook, et al., reflect productivity? Not in my world ... more like the "found wealth" of the gold and silver rushes of the late decades of the 1800's. (If I were an inventor of such a phenomena I'd get the glory and sell off as fast as I could without tipping over anything ... they go buy an island and be the local fat Buddha with attendant slave goils to chase Harry Reid around with cattle prods for entertainment).
Sure it reflects work and creativity in use of a technical resource(just like sluice & shaker boxes did of a mineral one) but placer gold is still just "found money" not a product of any repeatable process. Of all "prospectors" maybe 2% came out ahead at best ... the real money was in the "Freighters" (supply trains) and the "Sutlers" (sales outlets). It took cattlemen, then sod-busters, to create regenerative wealth from found resources. (Ted Turner has a fine buffalo ranch in the Gallatin Valley, with lots of KTFO signage :-L )
Oh, well, back to my creative work refining my new computer/router/modem/LAN set up. Of course I use my favorite technology (cursing) and favorite tool (2 lb sledge hammer).
Wanders off now, grunting in self satisfaction ... =))
I've been busy this morning emailing my congressman and my two senators. Senator Boozman is wonderful about answering my emails; he even writes to me personally (with pen and paper!) if I'm really wound up about something. My new congressman, Steve Womack, was elected to take Boozman's place. I'm not so sure about him. He hasn't been taking public stances, and may be too timid or overwhelmed by the job. We'll see. Pryor is a democrat of the old school; he generally listens.
ReplyDeleteAnyhow, here is my correspondence with the three distinguished men from Arkansas:
"Dear (insert elected guy here),
My family, friends, and I have watched the debt debate as it staggered its way through the process. I have no faith in the bill that was passed. It is a meaningless bandaid applied to a hemorrhage of federal spending.
I am most impressed by the Tea Party caucus, who represented my views in this matter.
I realize that you were in a tough spot; choosing between default and principle is an untenable position. You may have felt that you had no choice but to vote "yes"; however, going forward, I hope that you will take a staunch, unwavering position to cut trillions of wasteful government spending and fight tax increases tooth-and-nail. I support closing tax loopholes. I support simplifying the tax code. I support a balanced budget amendment, and I support term limits.
Thank you for your service to our region and to our country.
Respectfully,
(insert independent voting grandma's name)"
Aridog said go buy an island and be the local fat Buddha with attendant slave goils to chase Harry Reid around with cattle prods for entertainment).
ReplyDeleteLMAO!!! The visual is killing me! =))
Lady Red ... your comments regarding your "new" Congressman Womack is at odds with the term limits idea. Term limits don't work as intended,IMO. We have them in Michigan for state level offices. They are a joke. They rotate beginners in and out of various positions gaining expertise in none. Might as well hand Congress over to K Street Lobbyists ... where the term limited would certainly go as the defeated do now. They will be more servile, not less to K Street and vested interests.
ReplyDeleteTerm limits are a lazy way to exercise democracy when elections are there precisely to serve the same purpose. A term limit on the POTUS is fine, it is the most powerful position in the nation and the world. However, what works for one near omnipotent office doesn't scale up for Congress. In my opinion.
And ... I am unanimous in that =))
If any place needs weeding out, regardless of administration, it is the West Wing collection of "Czars." Place a firm limit on the number of such positions (as defined by responsibilities and authorities, NOT "titles") and permit none that even slightly duplicate or are redundant to Cabinet positions. Period.
Thet thar's my two wampum beads worth. Fire away :-t
Now ... another peeve of mine ... Congressional staffs. Today they average about 23 per Congress person in the House alone. That's 10,000 staff, unelected but working on your dime. [link]
ReplyDeleteCut back to not more than 10 staffers average per Representative, the same level as that in the Kennedy years.
Do the same for the Senate.
Good thing I am not all powerful, even for a day ... the Beltway wailing would be ear splitting ... then I'd get to the SES for a trim and restoration to civil service status, not appointee status.
Picture Lewy's "Bear Cavalry" amok in DC. x(
Aridog, my thinking is that these bozos never have to actually live and work under the laws that they impose on the rest of us. I believe it warps their prospective after x-number of years, and they become increasing isolated from their home states, and the wishes of their constituents. It becomes a racket, rather than a "service" to their community.
ReplyDeleteI don't want professional politicians serving in congress. I want ordinary men and women, giving a few years of their time for the greater good of their nation and a fair representation of the peers they left behind.
If I were QOTFU, I'd scrap all the perks currently afforded to the congress critters. I'd give them a reasonable paycheck and benefits while they are serving, but NO PENSION and no benefits once they return home. I'd also limit terms to 8 years, then they can pack their crap and GO HOME.
Hah! :))
And yes, the whole "czar" thing drives me out of my ever-lovin' mind. 8-}
Erg. *Rubbing eyes* Prospective=perspective in my above.
ReplyDeleteLady Red sez ...
ReplyDeleteI don't want professional politicians serving in congress.
The ideal, of course. However, considering it impacts the two oldest profane professions in the world; whores and politicians ... I don't see it working today.
Next, nearly half of Congress are millionaires before they enter ... the incentive really isn't the perks of pension and all that. link and link
By itself that isn't all bad, at least they've been successful at something before hand. Main point is that the motivation isn't likely money. I'm not sure how we'd get back to where a politician had to go home in a timely manner to earn a living.
The difference between a whore and a politician is that whores get paid to leave, politicians don't have to ... :D
The difference between a whore and a politician is that whores get paid to leave, politicians don't have to...
ReplyDeleteLMAO! So true!
Lady Red also sez ...
ReplyDelete... my thinking is that these bozos never have to actually live and work under the laws that they impose on the rest of us. I believe it warps their prospective.
I agree. But the real gut of all this warped perspective is the institutionalized layers of appointee positions below the Cabinet secretariat levels. There IS a reason senior bureaucrats think of Congressional visits and inquiries as "dog & pony" shows.
I don't have a workable answer. The problem with a good problem solving tyrant is keeping the tyrant good. I do think the layers of bureaucratic lard of appointed offices & staffs, above civil service grades, run the country, more or less. All too often the sole qualification for those positions is a firm lip lock on some political arses. For an example: Think Lisa Jackson's EPA appointed staff, vis a vis Carole Browner, vis a vis the Jug Eared messiah.
Bring on the Bear Cavalry!
From the front page of the WSJ:
ReplyDelete"Investors extended the stock-market selloff, putting blue-chips on pace for its longest slide in more than three decades."
Lovely. The Dow is down another 79 points so far today. Buckle up, Bears!