One Lawrence Auster seems to have arrived onto the same point that your humble servant also has repeatedly made, both on this fine forum and elsewhere:
In my view, the biggest single factor driving whites to national suicide is their false guilt over black inferiority. Because whites believe, as liberalism has taught them to believe, that all groups have equal inherent abilities, they conclude that the actual backwardness of blacks must be caused by something that the whites are doing to them (or failing to do for them). The result is the paralyzing racial guilt which makes whites feel that they have no right to defend and preserve their civilization, no right to defend and preserve themselves, but that they must instead self-sacrificially open themselves to nonwhites, a self-sacrifice that takes numerous forms, including naivety about black violence, denial of the tyrannical and murderous reality of Islam, and acceptance of mass Third-World immigration. Therefore, as I began saying in the mid 1990s, if whites could see the truth that black incapacity/dysfunction is not whites' fault but is inherent in blacks themselves, it could literally save the country, by freeing whites from their suicidal guilt.
The truth about racial differences in average group abilities and their partially heritable nature shall set us all free. Including the Blacks.
Solus, while I don't necessarily disagree with your analysis and conclusion I do think there are other considerations.
ReplyDeleteHaving grown up in the late forties, early fifties South I do see some slim rational for the behavior of a certain segment of blacks, the ones who have only learned their history from the personal experience of their fore-bearers.
One example is the remembrance of my father, racist to the core, taking the family drive around town on a Friday or Saturday night looking for white men attacking with ax handles any hapless black man doing nothing but walking down a public street. It wasn't just my father, and it wasn't isolated, it was a common event. It was what drunk white men did for an evenings entertainment, go out and beat the hell out of a black man for no reason other than the color of his skin. And of course I remember the water fountains, the sit in the back of the bus, and all the rest of what was the beginning of the end of institutional racism in this country.
Now, I'm not attempting to excuse or rationalize the, to be kind, animal actions of the current wildings as there is no excuse. Honestly I'm not sure what my point is, perhaps only to mention that the wounds of the past are fresh, scabs not fully formed, and healing a long way from being complete.
Well, really, bottom line, I'm uncomfortable with Auster's (whom I have read in the past), and yours characterizations. Perhaps that is my white guilt burden... but I'm not sure that is the case. All I can do is to try and keep an open mind.
I don't agree with him and I don't feel particularly guilty. Angry maybe (about the state of our "race relations"), and confused.
ReplyDeleteI read back to a couple of his posts and he talks about many disturbing truths. The dysfunction in so many black families (absent dads, etc.), denial of the problem with millions of violent Islamists, underreporting of black-on-white crime, the latest "wildings" and "flash robs".
It's his conclusion that the black race is inferior to the white race that I disagree with. Welfare and unending public housing fiascos, distrust, fear, disintegration of the family - all these things contributed to the anger and hostility of blacks. I just don't think it's due to "backwardness".
Good post, Luther, you put it much better than mine and I feel the same way you do.
ReplyDeleteHa... funny florrie, a couple of minutes apart. We're on the same page I think.
ReplyDeleteOh, and well said.
ReplyDeleteWe have to stop meeting like this... people might notice!
ReplyDeleteOTOH, remember when Obama talked about his white grandma walking across the street when she was approached by young black men?
ReplyDeleteAt the time, I thought "I'm with grandma on that one" and I think it's self-preservation more than racism. I OFTEN hear from rap guys and other black entertainers that if "you aren't scaring the whites, you're doing something wrong".
I remember years ago Lyana talked about being verbally assaulted by a black man and his son for merely walking down the street (I think it was Lyana, my apologies if I got it wrong).
We have to stop meeting like this... people might notice!
ReplyDeletetee hee, ya think?
lewy or Magic Fayre - can you tell me why I no longer stay signed in even though I logged on through blogger dashboard?
ReplyDeleteThe last week or so I have to "select profile", type my name, hit post a couple times.
I'm lazy so I want to stay logged in. Any suggestions?
I'm with Luther and florrie on this one. Well said, both of you.
ReplyDeleteOTOH, florrie, no one will notice as no one is here. Must be that 'job' thing you spoke of the other day. :)
ReplyDeleteAnd sure, I agree with grandma as well. Why place yourself in a bad situation if you have the option not to.
Now I'm off for dinner, night, you all.
ReplyDeleteYeah, Luther, jobs...sheesh.
ReplyDelete:-)
lady red showed up though!!
I better head outside while I've still got some daylight.
Suuuure...I show up and everyone runs for the hills! Hmph. :))
ReplyDeleteIn my view, Auster is a savant. Crazy on a number of issues (and non-issues), but brilliantly on the point about a few important ones.
ReplyDeleteAnd who else but a savant would cut to the heart of the matter so unequivocally? I love Derb, but he is mostly an entertainer; Mark Steyn is witty and insightful, but stops short of politically dangerous conclusions; Jared Taylor is witty and incisive too, but he is a one-issue activist, and is compromised by poisonous connections he stubbornly refuses to sever, Steve Sailer is smart and cynical, but also antisemitic.
Ian Jobling was very promising, but has thrown in the towel.
ReplyDeleteWelfare and unending public housing fiascos, distrust, fear, disintegration of the family - all these things contributed to the anger and hostility of blacks.
ReplyDeleteOh, definitely. I am of the opinion that Blacks' social performance and, correspondingly, SES can be improved through right social policies. It's just that it cannot be improved indefinitely.
The liberals'/egalitarians' (i.e. virtually eveyone's) goal is to make Blacks and other NAMs (at least) equal to Whites in all collective outcomes without exception. And this is impossible due to the significant part of human nature that is inherited, the White guilt continues, and so does Black resentment, and so does the national suicide-by-a-thousand-cuts.
And so, I believe that the only way of this conundrum is through recognition of the scientific truth about human nature and following the social and political implications thereof. I believe all of us will be better off as a result.
I enjoyed reading your take on the pundits, solus. I don't know a couple of those people, I'll have to look them up.
ReplyDeleteMark Steyn is witty and insightful, but stops short of politically dangerous conclusions
Maybe on the black/white problems but he sure paid the price for sticking to his guns re: the Muslim problem.
Of course, I may be biased because I'm in love with him. Platonic love, of course, but still...
ReplyDeleteOh, definitely. I am of the opinion that Blacks' social performance and, correspondingly, SES can be improved through right social policies. It's just that it cannot be improved indefinitely.
The liberals'/egalitarians' (i.e. virtually eveyone's) goal is to make Blacks and other NAMs (at least) equal to Whites in all collective outcomes without exception. And this is impossible due to the significant part of human nature that is inherited, the White guilt continues, and so does Black resentment, and so does the national suicide-by-a-thousand-cuts.
Yes, well said and I think you are right.
Correction:
ReplyDelete"And since this is impossible due to the significant part of human nature that is inherited..."
Just turn that around and ask about the goal to make Whites equal to Blacks in all collective outcomes without exception.
ReplyDeleteNot going to happen, that one. Nor should it.
he sure paid the price for sticking to his guns re: the Muslim problem.
ReplyDeleteCertainly. His critique of Islam is devastating. It's just that he doesn't seem to suggest what to do about that monstrous threat.
So far, Auster's "separationism" remains an only suggested policy that could work, if implemented (a hugely problematic "if", of course).
How can I argue with intellectualism versus experience. After all, it is the smart thinkers who have placed us right where we are. I guess the mistake was to have listened to the incorrect smart thinkers. One must listen to the 'right' smart thinkers who have the 'right' smart answers.
ReplyDelete"scientific truth about human nature"
That's a scary fucking statement there, Solus. Really fucking scary. I'd likely be on the downside of whatever truth that is about. And I will take exception.
Try "scientific approach to human nature", then.
ReplyDeleteAnd what is that experience, exactly? That, no matter how hard Whites try, how much treasure they expend, how strongly they condemn and repudiate their own cultural heritage, how low they make the standards or abandon them altogether -- they just cannot bring Blacks nowhere close to the collective outcome equality.
ReplyDeleteDoesn't it indicate that the goal itself is false, and that factors beyond the White society's control are at play here?
That's a scary fucking statement there, Solus. Really fucking scary. I'd likely be on the downside of whatever truth that is about. And I will take exception.
ReplyDeleteThat truth concerns groups, not individuals. No need for rush judgements.
That's the problem with race realism. Too many people misunderstand its theses and their implications.
ReplyDelete"Magic Fayre - can you tell me why I no longer stay signed in even though I logged on through blogger dashboard?"
ReplyDeleteSorry, no can do. Same thing happens to me. I tink it's a case of you get what you pay for...
which in our case is zero...
I tink, therefore I yam.
ReplyDeleteCertainly. His critique of Islam is devastating. It's just that he doesn't seem to suggest what to do about that monstrous threat.
ReplyDeleteOh, I see what you mean, solus. You're right, not much help to have the problems analyzed if there isn't also very real talk about solutions as well.
I tink, therefore I yam. tee hee
ReplyDeleteThanks, Fay, glad it's not just something I've done.
Well, the topic does make me uncomfortable at times because I have to take a close look at my own biases and fears.
One thing I think we can agree on is that the social experiment of the great society was a great failure. And we all know how damned near impossible it is to turn these behemoths back and admit they have caused bigger fissures than ever between us.
Bill Cosby talked about some uncomfortable truths and look at how THAT was received.
Yes, 'approach' is slightly more tolerable but still brings to my mind the past history of scientific approaches to manipulation of certain segments, or groups as you say, of society. Sanger comes to mind, though imbued with a sense of social responsibility her lasting legacy has done more harm that good in my opinion. I admit that may not be a fair response to your argument, that my personal feelings may intrude upon my objective sense. Nonetheless, given the experience and knowledge we have gained about the demonization of various groups throughout history the purely scientific approach is a path upon which I am extremely wary of treading.
ReplyDelete"One thing I think we can agree on is that the social experiment of the great society was a great failure."
Yes, a failure that makes me all the more reluctant to embrace more of the same. And just like Steyn I don't have answers either. Look Solus, my first comment to you was that I didn't necessarily disagree with you. That is still the case. I just think we need be extremely careful about any 'answers' that we do come up with.
Well, one thing is for certain. What we're doing IS NOT working.
ReplyDeleteWarehousing people in inner-city tenements is an abject failure of progressive thought. They have destroyed black families, and then hung the angry social product around the taxpayer's neck like a flailing albatross.
We need to STOP all this ridiculous social experimentation. End the subsidies, and let people make their own way based on hard work, brains, and merit. Outcomes will be different. Who the fuck cares, as long as the family unit is restored and everyone is too busy working and putting food on the table to get into mischief? If a family stumbles, churches and civic groups should step in, NOT the federal government.
I'm weary of having the race issue in my face every time I open a text book, read a newspaper, attend a meeting, or listen to the radio. And I'm VERY weary of other people's grubby hands being in my threadbare pocket.
Bravo, lady red!
ReplyDeleteOkay, due to my advanced age I say fuck it all. Why argue. In a few short years my opinion will matter not at all.
ReplyDeleteYou youngsters have the board, move as you see fit and good luck, I wish you well.
It's not often I get called a "youngster"; thank you Luther! :X
ReplyDeleteSeriously though, we all look at this issue from our own experiences, and through our own prism. This is a multi-faceted, constantly evolving subject.
There is no "one point" to be made. There isn't one strategy that rises above others as THE solution. We're discussing PEOPLE, with dreams and hopes and heartbreaks.
Do many blacks harbor resentment for good reasons? Yes. Are many whites feeling a building resentment for good reasons? Yes. Those blunt observations plus a dollar will buy a cup of coffee at Mel's Diner, but they don't offer much else.
Ultimately, we're all in this together, regardless of skin color. We'd better figure it out, because where we're headed is a dark place. For EVERYONE.
"I tink, therefore I yam."
ReplyDeleteBut do you give a darn?
Do we want to revisit a stand-alone domain? I found a place -- that seems to get good reviews -- for $6.00 a month for a basic setup, which should cover our needs.
ReplyDelete"But do you give a darn?"
ReplyDeleteWhy? Do you have a hole in your sock :)
Do we want to revisit a stand-alone domain? I found a place -- that seems to get good reviews -- for $6.00 a month for a basic setup, which should cover our needs.
ReplyDeleteI'd be happy to chip in for it - would that eliminate these blogger problems we've been having? Give us more options? Just my 2 cents - I don't think we need a lot of bells and whistle, just something with good basic options that works reliably well.
Is Fay the only one who has not hear the expression "tinker's darn?"
ReplyDeleteAnd can we find a domain that automatically cleans up my typos?
ReplyDeleteEr, I never hear of 'tinker's darn' either...
ReplyDeleteBut then, I don't get out much :-)
I wonder how Aridog is doing in Montana? I miss him around here.
Aridog is reading, just not saying much. Who'd a thunk it, eh?
ReplyDeleteA tourist got hissef kilt by a Grizzly day before yesterday...first one, in the park, since 1987. Accidental encounter, with a sow and cubs, on a frequented trail and he wasn't prepared, no pepper spray, and he tried to run, then fight. He may have saved his wife by doing so, as she was grabbed by the backpack, and thrown down, then the bear went back after the man...while wife played dead. Rather sad over all.
Oh, that's just horrible. I have lots of respect (and great fear) for bears. My tent camping days are over anyway but the bears are definitely a factor in that choice.
ReplyDeleteAridog's back! Yippee!
ReplyDeleteI read about the man who was killed by the grizzly. Very sad.
Er, I never hear of 'tinker's darn' either...
ReplyDeleteThat's what I get for trying to be funny. :(
'Tinker's Darn' is no more than yet a further bowdlerization of 'Tinker's Damn'
ReplyDeleteWhich is a pretty mild epithet to begin with.
I was thinking "damn," but there are ladies present. I also did not want to be TOO offensive in case no one had heard the expression.
ReplyDelete" A Tinker's Damn"
ReplyDeleteMeaning
Something that is insignificant or worthless.
Origin
There's some debate over whether this phrase should be tinker's dam - a small dam to hold solder, made by tinkers when mending pans, or tinker's damn - a tinker's curse, considered of little significance because tinkers were reputed to swear habitually.
If we go back to 1877, in the Practical Dictionary of Mechanics, Edward Knight puts forward this definition:
"Tinker's-dam - a wall of dough raised around a place which a plumber desires to flood with a coat of solder. The material can be but once used; being consequently thrown away as worthless."
That version of events has gone into popular folklore and many people believe it. After all, any definition written as early has 1877 has to be true doesn't it?
Knight may well have been a fine mechanic but there has to be some doubt about his standing as an etymologist. There is no corroborative evidence for his speculation and he seems to have fallen foul of the curse of folk etymologists - plausibility. If an ingenious story seems to neatly fit the bill then it must be true. Well, in this case, it isn't. The Victorian preference of 'dam' over 'damn' may also owe something to coyness over the use of a profanity in polite conversation.
That interpretation of the phrase was well enough accepted in Nevada in 1884 for the Reno Gazette to report its use in the defence of a Methodist preacher who was accused of the profanity of using the term 'tinker's dam':
"It isn't profane any more to say tinker's dam. The minister stated that a tinker's dam was a dam made by itinerant menders of tinware on a pewter plate to contain the solder".
The same view was expressed in the Fitchburg Sentinel newspaper in 1874.
The problem with that interpretation is that all those accounts ignore an earlier phrase - 'a tinker's curse' (or cuss), which exemplified the reputation tinkers had for habitual use of profanity. This example from John Mactaggart's The Scottish Gallovidian Encyclopedia, 1824, predates Knight's version in the popular language:
"A tinkler's curse she did na care what she did think or say."
In the Grant County Herald, Wisconsin, 1854, we have:
"There never was a book gotten up by authority and State pay, that was worth a tinker's cuss".
So, we can forget about plumbing. The earlier phrase simply migrated the short distance from curse to damn to give us the proper spelling of the phrase - tinker's damn.
Stolen from The Phrase Finder.
I had always thought the plumbing story was correct. Learn something new every day.
Lady Red. I know my words may indicate otherwise, but that's because I'm a poor writer. I have no issues with Solus, or you. All I was trying to say was that I think we need to be careful about solutions. Because you know what springs to my mind when I hear 'groups of people' and solutions in close proximity to each other. Yes, perhaps I'm being overly sensitive, I don't care. I'd prefer to err on the side of caution.
ReplyDeleteNow, having said that, I agree completely with your #36. But again, by the time 'everyone' wakes up and gets serious about the matter I'll be sitting in a corner somewhere with Alzheimer's drool dribbling down my chin. It is you youngster's who will be getting done what needs to be done.
"And can we find a domain that automatically cleans up my typos?"
ReplyDeleteHa, Matt, you're just trying to lure DWT to contribute with false hopes. :)
Anyway, as always, I'd be more than willing to contribute toward whatever might be best for the blog.
Hey, who you callin' youngster?
ReplyDeletetee hee
I don't think there's anyone posting here under 40 and the majority are over 50...
PS - stock up on meds, Luther, that's my plan. Then we won't get stuck in a corner somewhere dribbling.
Er, I have to correct that. afw and Lyana are still youngsters :-)
ReplyDeleteHey, I thought all the brilliant young ladies were 29. Have I been misinformed?
ReplyDeleteOh, wait...
ReplyDelete"PS - stock up on meds, Luther, that's my plan."
ReplyDeleteDon't know if you're joshing, but that is something I need to do. Wait, I'm going to go find something I wrote elsewhere.
Matt... when it comes to women, is it misinformed or delusional? Does it make any difference? No.
Okay, this is off topic and a comment I made elsewhere, but it does dovetail with dribbling. The subject was about folk singers coming around to hospice's to give solace to the dying.
ReplyDelete"Having witnessed this twice in the last three years, here's what happens when someone is 'checked into' hospice.
No food, no water other than moistened sponge to the mouth. No turning to the side to clear the lungs.
The first experience I was there by myself to hear the final drowning gurgles. Death by asphyxiation.
The second experience, two weeks ago, was death by dehydration. He lasted ten days, though, with a strong heart to the end.
The one thing that is given is drugs, lots and lots of drugs. In both incidences twelve hours after admittance there was no more communication. The entire Sousa led Marine Band could have been there in all its glory. Wouldn't have been heard.
Since Medicare started funding hospice it is a growth industry. Dr. Kevorkian in a pleasant and longer lasting setting is all it is.
I'm not necessarily condemning the industry, after all, it has its place I suppose.
So, florrie, I think the stockpiled drugs a good idea. But then, one has to remember to take the damn things! :)
We don't have kids to help with us, Luther. If I got Alzheimer's, I'd want to take enough sleeping pills to go byebye.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry to hear that about Hospice. It is not like that here in Washington - at least, from the anecdotal stories I have heard, they are a wonderful, caring and very comforting bunch of people for those just waiting to die.
"they are a wonderful, caring and very comforting bunch of people for those just waiting to die. "
ReplyDeleteThat's what I hear about our hospices too florrie. I 'm really shocked to read Luther's account.
Luther, all I know is I love the brilliant young ladies of the blog no matter how old they are and I would do all I could to protect them and make them feel safe and appreciated. With all they offer us what I have to offer them pales by comparison.
ReplyDeleteAs a matter of fact, that goes for everyone here.
I was shocked too, Fay; they have been a blessing to many of my parent's and my friends.
ReplyDeleteMatt, that is such a beautiful sentiment, thank you.
OT -
ReplyDeleteFay, "Sunday Morning" on CBS is doing a segment on Tom Jones tomorrow.
Just sayin'...in case you're watching the tube in the morning :-)
"I don't think there's anyone posting here under 40 and the majority are over 50..."
ReplyDeleteIt's good to know I'm old enough to post here : )
Not that I ever summon up the ability to compose a semi-coherent comment anyway. I do appreciate that you all manage to put together some excellent discussions.
Ah crap, see what I said up above, about being a poor writer...
ReplyDelete"they are a wonderful, caring and very comforting bunch of people for those just waiting to die. "
The staff at hospice were exactly like this. I wasn't intending to be negative about the staff, I was merely mentioning the procedures that are followed.
Yes Matt, understood and agree.