Interesting, DwT. I wonder what would have happened if that call had been taken.
As it is a Bowl day I'm going to do a little armchair QB'ing. But first I'm going to point to this tidbit from a local Tucson blogger. Their is absolutely no independent verification of this, and the blogger is protecting his source. But here...
"Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability."
Who knows. I certainly wouldn't have a hard time believing the above is true. I bet we've all seen, heard or expericed something similar. Friends of friends getting special treatment. And I'm not condemning that, it's human nature.
If you look at the smirk on Jared's booking picture I'm quite sure he is enjoying every moment of this, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure I would even classify him as insane, really. I think he knew/knows exactly what it is that he is doing. He's a self-centered, narcissistic asshole who wanted his 15 minutes. And now we're all playing his game.
If you look at the smirk on Jared's booking picture I'm quite sure he is enjoying every moment of this, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure I would even classify him as insane, really. I think he knew/knows exactly what it is that he is doing. He's a self-centered, narcissistic asshole who wanted his 15 minutes. And now we're all playing his game.
I think you're right on the money, Luther. As others have said, it's a shame no one in the crowd was packing when this happened.
I wish the media would STFU, and stop showing his picture and saying his name. I'm sickened by all the breathless "coverage".
I couldn't say it any better, lady red. I click on Drudge and there is a creepy photo of him there. I can't take any more of the coverage, thank gawd for sports and Zuma.
Luther - I've read "the cholla" and it's a very explosive post.
If he's right, sheriff Dupnik will have some 'splainin' to do. srsly.
If he's wrong, then he's just massively slandered Dupnik. The post has gone completely viral at this point, it's everywhere in the right blogosphere. It will be pretty tough to "walk it back".
The "cholla" himself looks to be a formidable and serious person - doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would make sh*t up 'cause it fits his narrative. OTOH, he has absolutely no corroboration.
He will likely come under some pretty intense scrutiny.
The not very right wing LA Times sums up Sheriff Clarence Duprik quite well right here. He's a motor mouth and unlike any cop I've ever known, and that is a lot.
First day back at work yesterday, so, busy. Looks like there may be something to 'the cholla's' report. Of course all the information is being 'properly vetted' before release. Plus new info from someone who'd been hanging with Jared.
I'm surprised with Jared's interest in lucid dreaming he didn't list Castaneda's work in his favorite books.
Yes, Lady Red, I do believe he is reveling in the notoriety and the chaos he has created, leading into...
I can't believe all the bullshit that lawmakers are coming up with due to this shooting. What a bunch of short sighted jackasses. They'll do anything for political gain, anything. I've no respect for the lot of them. Well, a rare few perhaps, but it's a damn short list.
Luther....Good to hear you're healed up and all that.
Next ... I, for one, believe the Cholla's report is mostly dead on the money. And Duprik is no cop of any merit, as he seems to miss the "serve and protect" aspect of police work. He quickly assigns a failure to protect on his part to others....distant others.
Yeah, Sharon Angle and Sarah Palin et al., have made use of stupid metaphors and analogies to guns and ammo equivalences to votes and change. The need to STFU on the topic. However, they aren't alone ... Dear Leader has used similar metaphors and analogies ... "if you bring a knife, we'll bring a gun" or something like that, along with a few others.
Duprik's a stooge who now seems to emulate a Shakespearian line by protesting too much. If the psychotic had just come in from out of town, out of county jurisdiction, I might buy that Pima County Sheriff's office had done their job. But he didn't, he had a history with Pima County ... and there you go.
Luther ... off topic, but you might find it of interest...health care wise.
Your experience has made me much more careful. Well, yours and my old friend in Montana who managed to break his ankle in December. Number one, he's a priority one VA Health Care patient ... e.g., purportedly full coverage. Period.
A dubious position since he must go to facilities the local VA director dictates. The current director is solely concerned with reducing VA costs and has cut out many "patient-local" sources for service.
Okay, here you go ... my friend broke his right ankle and upon a call to VA was directed to go to the VA hospital ER at Fort Harrison in Great Falls, a two and 1/2 hour drive north of his home. Many much nearer facilities, for the ER work at least, in between, were not allowed.
Fort Harrison is a first rate hospital but getting there isn't always easy, fortunately he has local buddies who will drive him. I've even done it when necessary when out there. Problem is now that the ankle bone(s) have not healed properly, partially due to the delay in setting them, so today he has surgery to implant a screw or pin, etc. out-patient yet, then drive home, by another, obviously.
He's pleased with Fort Harrison, but not so much with the initial ER service available. He's planning to add Medicare Part B soonest, as the VA system, even Priority One, doesn't handle emergency things very well.
This is an example of how federal "managers" handle health care. Welcome to Pelosi Care all y'all....it cannot be any different.
Thanks, Ari. Though not exactly healed up as yet but certainly well along in the process. I must admit that is has been an arduous ordeal. Not so much the actual physical recovery, though it has been tedious enough, but the psychological aspects after surgery which were unexpected by me. Let's just say intimations of mortality and/or end of life reliance on others made a forceful imprint on my psyche. I don't want to go out dependent is the bottom line I suppose though I'm not sure there are many other options available. I'm not sure I have the fortitude to make that last lonely walk into the snow covered woods... so to speak. Enough of that.
But yes, do be careful. Though my simple slip and fall was among many minor things that are difficult to guard against, if you know what I mean.
Ah, health care. Your friends situation is most deplorable, he has my utmost empathy. Yet, once again we see that the promises made to us in return for our service don't hold up very well in the real world. I have delayed, mostly out of laziness, signing up for Tri-Care as I am still employed and have good coverage. From your recounting perhaps I was prescient in doing so. Oh, everyone is different, but it was 16 days between my injury and surgery so perhaps it wasn't the delay your friend had to endure but other reasons for his continued complications. Either way, again, I'm sorry he is having to go through all that.
Well, sorry for the rambling off topic. I, too, agree that Duprik is no cop of merit. We were watching coverage the day of the shooting and I admit my jaw dropping to the floor as Duprik gave his first press briefing. I was yelling at the TV as a matter of fact, as he starting out with his climate of hate speech... he had no business interjecting his fucking OPINION into that news conference. Extremely unprofessional. Though I suspect he had been conferring with local Dem powers that be as to his presentation. I don't believe he is smart enough to have figured that out on his on. And yes, the timing is certainly suspect that a day or so after the 'cholla' report the Sheriffs Dept. unexpectedly finds evidence of prior visits with Mr. Loughner. There's a skunk in the woodpile there I think.
I disagree about Angle, Palin, the O, et. al. shutting up with stupid metaphors, etc. There are already too many areas of speech that are too sensitive to be uttered out loud. Too many restrictions on what can and can't be said in public discourse. I'm disgusted that some talk about laws against 'hate' speech in this country. I could dress it out with my opinion but short story is, it's all bullshit. When people can't say what they want and/or think then everyone walks in the dark.
Though I can't think of any reason at all why this traffic stop should have been anything other than what it was. Other interesting little tidbits there as well.
Watching the memorial speeches, it came to me that what disturbs is the conflation that a politician being shot is different, and worth more, than that of a crack addicted whore suffering the same. I'm not a Jared, but I do chaff at the hypocrisy of it all.
Maybe I'll regret this tomorrow... but I'm not sure of that.
Ari, Noah will have to drive all the way to Little Rock if he gets sick or injured. We pay for the small stuff out-of-pocket, rather than drive 2 1/2 hours to the overcrowded VA complex in LR.
Luther, we watched Ghost Hunters International last night. We've had all the hypocrisy and self-serving BS we can take for one week.
Luther...my reason for saying Angle and Palin should STFU with the guns & ammo analogies is NOT because I think speech should be restricted. It IS because reckless speech can be used against anyone connected to you, let alone your own cause. In short, they "draw fire" on anyone centrist or right...and for a long time.
Angle's failure in Nevada against Wedgie Man Reid no doubt was helped along by her literal equivalence of either votes, or failing that, bullets. She's a political moron. She even claimed that my home town was under Sharia Law and asserted we're a hotbed of terrorists. I doubt she's ever even been here.
I am all for supporting free speech, but not reckless speech under circumstances that can make it dangerous. (fire in crowded theater analogy here) I find Palin a fraud because it is blatantly obvious fro her TV show she has near zero knowledge of guns or hunting. I dislike Angle because she literally equated votes with bullets. Idiot.
The entire concept of the American Revolution and subsequent Constitution, with Amendments, was to form a nation that never again would have to revert to "bullets" to bring about change...and it was tested in the Civil War, where dissident bullets literally replaced votes. Thus, it was a damn dumb comment for Angle to make.
Angle's failure in Nevada against Wedgie Man Reid no doubt was helped along by her literal equivalence of either votes, or failing that, bullets. She's a political moron. She even claimed that my home town was under Sharia Law and asserted we're a hotbed of terrorists. I doubt she's ever even been here.
Brother. It just galls me every time I see Harry Reid open his mouth that the Republican party couldn't bother to put a decent candidate up against him. Mr. Ed probably would have beaten him by a landslide.
Guns and ammo analogies, or any other, can happen not just because one explicitly knows them but because one lives around, or near those who do. Just like any analogy. Just like speech patterns, idioms, anachronisms and other such complexities of the spoken word. I talk out my ass all the time about things of which I have no direct knowledge, but am usually close to correct based on life experience, general knowledge, and a myriad of other factors.
As far as reckless speech goes I'm damn sure guilty of that. I'd hate like hell for anyone here to be tagged by association with me and my thoughts on the current world. A good reason to shut the fuck up I guess.
I'm not familiar with Angle's comment about votes=bullets. I'd just say that sometimes that is a true statement. All I know is that in my war I could have given a shit less about the details. I was there in the hopes of giving another poor MF a chance to live in freedom. Yep, a damn naive and ignorant view of how things really are. But that's who I was at the time. I guess I've haven't grown since then.
Whoa there, Luther....you're reading things in to my words. "Our" war was, in fact, an instance where bullets replaced votes, where force replaced debate and accommodation in a multi-ethnic tiny nation. That IS precisely why I find Angle's line of thought objectionable.
Yes, I too felt I was there to help the various ethic nationals establish a free country, and still think that, as far as my own purposes go. Yep, we get called naive now and then, almost always by those who were not there or in fact know nothing of the times. The idea was the embodiment of John F Kennedy's values ... something the Democrats of today have no clue about or seek to revise to some weak kneed pitiful version.
And you're right, we and our buddies did not give a shit about the "details" per se. Problem was, and is now, that those details are contrived by cake eaters who sit in safety but influence actions in the field, in various endeavors. Thus, speaking for myself, I'd prefer politicians keep their metaphors to things they actually know something about when creating analogous scenarios.
Palin is mostly harmless, but many people believe she is functionally skilled when all it is is rhetoric. We already have one of those in the Oval Office. It's been done.
Angle, OTOH, is a bona fide lunatic and Reid is right about the Nevada Repubs failing to field a lucid candidate...much as it pains me to say it. Of course, that makes Nevada no worse than Alaska and Delaware. Palin sure had her finger on the pulse of those races, eh?
To clarify a bit: My take on votes versus bullets equivalences in Vietnam is that the PAVN of North Vietnam was blatantly seeking results via Mao's dictum: Power flows from the barrel of a gun.
It is outright falsehood that the north wasn't invading the south until after Tet '68, when the VC were demolished. The PAVN was present in the Central Highlands of South Vietnam in 1965 and were the principal enemy combatants during the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley. Bullets versus votes personified.
Any similar equivalence drawn now, rhetorically or actually, is anathema to my way of thinking. Bullets do not, and cannot, replace votes in a free society.
I feel the same way about the bring a gun to a knife fight analogy Obama made a while back....a coincidental plagiarism of the line in the movie "The Untouchables?" No matter, it was stupid. A rhetorical flexing of political power muscle is not political fitness...e.g, it's trash talk and that's it. Same for anyone who uses it.
I suppose I should have kept quiet as I admitted I was not familiar with Angle's exact quote, context or not. And to be honest/clear I don't know enough about the woman to make a cogent comment one way or the other about her mental stability or fitness for anything, much less political office.
Agree on trash talk. At least for the O that is him playing the tough 'with it' guy.
It was 67-8 but I know in Northern I Corps we never ran into VC, only NVA.
As an aside, and slightly back on topic. I've been thinking about how for years we've been told that depictions/talk/lyrics of violence in movies, games, rap music, etc., have absolutely no effect on anyone. That everyone realizes that it is just 'make believe'. Especially perhaps, those impressionable youth in the 15/25 age bracket.
How is it that now, all of a sudden, mere phrases, even single words, have the power to enrage, inflame, and induce someone to go out and shoot 20 people. What changed?
The loony left doesn't have to make sense, they just have to spout their shyte because they know it will be immediately vomited back up by their reliable toadies (Huffpo, Kos, Olberman, Matthews, Npr, blah, blah, blah). I love it that Mark Levin has taken a stand against the people smearing him (Matthews named him directly) and said he WILL sue. Good on ya, Mark.
Luther .... no apology needed, we exchange ideas not take offense at them. I acknowledge I am very likely over-sensitive on the guns and weapons issue. Anyone around me mentions offensive use of knife or gun I expect to see them pull one, and I am likely to act accordingly, by whatever means necessary, even if they don't and are just woofing. Our experiences have shown us what weapons can do, so it's no metaphor or rhetorical device to me.
I even irritated a few of my Trap Shooting Club cohorts a while back when I objected to members having a couple of beers then picking up shotguns to "try" from the rack, etc., or worse, going back out to the stands to shoot another round. The board agreed with me (lawyers do some good, really :-), however, and it was made a firm rule...even one beer, and you're done shooting for the day and you stay away from the gun rack. I've seen the results of an "unloaded" M-16 playfully pointed at another GI's head from 10 feet away. I don't need a repeat.
I agree with you that games and rhetoric don't inspire violence per se. "Words" are just words, however, when one addresses a public group (not a game or television or movie fiction show)with weapons terms you are bordering on incitement. There are sufficient studies on mob violence instigation to make that understandable I'd think....e.g., when Angle suggested a "Second Amendment solution" instead of a political one (unless one adheres to Mao's dictum) she is being an inciter.
Palin is just a charming, albeit pathetic, bullshitter. Typical example: In her "Reality" show, the episode about caribou hunting (I only watched 5 re-plays to settle an argument) Palin flat out says, more than once, only one kind of plane, a pilot and one passenger model, can land there because it is so remote and rugged. It is remote, that's a given. The location was Kavik, Alaska, on the Kavik River...the location of her "hunt." Guess she's unaware that Kavik was part of the "DEW Line" and the airstrip was built to handle up to at least C-47 aircraft (military version of Douglas DC-3 airliner)which could carry 20 to 30 passengers. She's also unaware that the main Alaskan "bush" regional airline regularly flies hunters in to Kavik in aircraft carrying 4 to 6 passengers?
Harmless exaggeration, true, but indicative of her mind set IMO. I cannot take her seriously....the more she yaks, the worse she makes it for reasonable others.
Dang I am struggling awkwardly with this weapons rhetoric and violence thing. It is simple: I do NOT think the yammering of Angle or Palin caused the crime in Tucson, nor do I think violent video games caused it ... although they do pervert reality extensively to naive minds and armchair generals.
I DO think the yammering of Angle, Palin, et al., on the weapons thing makes it way too easy for the left to pitch a hissy fit and whine. That is just plain stupid, selfish, or both. The effect is to hurt other more rational truthful speakers and advocates.
I DO think the yammering of Angle, Palin, et al., on the weapons thing makes it way too easy for the left to pitch a hissy fit and whine
Yes, I think that is true, but I also think that the far left is NEVER happy. They ALWAYS have something to bitch and whine about. It's what they do. They learn social hand-wringing and eco-angst in college, and it goes downhill from there.
The Group That Shall Not Be Named picked some really far-out candidates in the last election. I think that had to happen before they could settle to a conservative middle ground. Now that the "growing pains" are over, perhaps some better choices will be made in 2012.
Conservatives need to run brilliant, far-sighted, stable candidates. Unfortunately, most conservatives with a triple-digit IQ are smart enough to stay away from the political cesspool. They know their families will be dragged through the muck on a relentless basis, and that every comment they ever uttered will be held up to intense and biased scrutiny by our so-called media.
I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage to stand up to the far left "group think" mentality and drama. Who will do so? I don't know.
As far as Palin goes, I've never in my life seen such hatred directed at anyone, not Hitler, not Stalin, not Timothy McVeigh. It's wildly out of proportion to her place in our society. She's not a monster, or a criminal, or evil incarnate. She's just a broad from Wasilla who has enough mettle to stand her ground against a ferocious, brutal onslaught that shows no sign of abating.
I may not vote for her for President (unless she runs against BO), but I admire her fortitude in the face of unprecedented and unreasonable persecution. If she is not allowed to speak and express her ideas, then neither am I.
1. I don't "hate" Palin or anyone else. Closest thing to "hate" in me is reserved for the likes of Jane Fonda, John Kerry, William Ayers, et al.
2. I dislike Palin because she prevaricates on topics, large and small, and makes "regular people" she presumes to represent seem dumb. There is no need to prevaricate and make up stuff. That said, I , too, believe she has the right to be heard....that we all do.
3. I'd buy the "persecution" syndrome on Palin if it was limited to 2008-2009. In 2010 she has gone out of her way to invite it and that's a whole 'nuther story ... again making her audience appear foolish or stupid. She has made "political self defense" her "schtick" and grown wealthy doing so.
4. I do not believe for a moment that any far left liberal is even slightly awed by Palin, let alone scared ... she is a better mocking target than any they could have created alone.
5. Henceforth I will try mightily to avoid and refrain from any further comment on Palin, Angle, O'Donnell, et al., as they really have no actual impact on our future. At least not my future. I do this, in no small part, to keep the peace in my own domicile where the topic rife with snark now and then.
I wasn't singling you out for my Palin comments; it's everywhere. The networks, the newspapers, the magazines...EVERYWHERE. As far as us 'uns on TCKT, we'll just have to agree to disagree when it comes to Palin. After one more observation, of course...:D
Why should Palin shut up? She's obviously preparing to run for President. No one says that John effin' Kerry "invites it on himself" when he says or does something idiotic, because the media doesn't savagely attack him. Same with Biden. I can't believe the crap that comes out of that man's mouth! Is anyone ripping his family to shreds? Nope. Al Franken gets a pass, as did Grayson before he was kicked to the curb. Pelosi and Dingy Harry? And BO himself? They get a cuddle and a pat on the head. It's ridiculous.
I know why you have issues with her, and they're valid. Shooting any animal out of a plane is sick. But the left could care less about dead wolves; they're reacting at a gut-level to something else...I'm not exactly sure what it is that sends them into a frenzy. But many regular folks, who live a similar lifestyle and have a similar manner of expressing themselves, can relate to her in a way they can't to the political elites.
The more Palin gets bashed, the more supporters she will have. People feel like they are defending their own turf when they line up behind her. She speaks for an angry and frustrated working class. No one else will.
My 'last word'. Yeh, Sarah may be fully full of shit, but to my mind it is authentic shit. I don't think it is an act in other words. It's just how she comes across.
I still think of Buckley and his comment about the first 100 names from the phone book in how most would likely do a better job than the clowns we have now. I don't see how Sarah could be any worse than the 'O', frankly. I would at least know that she wasn't intentionally trying to destroy the country.
Man, you've forced me to break my "vow" already....seduction I call it!!
Lady Red said: Why should Palin shut up?
I'm not suggesting she shut up, just stop making stuff up.
That, and be herself, stop trying to be something she is not, in particular not anymore. My disdain for her wildlife ideals are only enhanced as I learn how little she really knows about it. Near nothing.
As for her family, they'll get respite when she stops featuring them. Note that the least featured member Todd gets the least flak.
In fact, I said clearly (I thought) she has the right to speak out. That she makes a fool of herself frequently is not my problem. Except when people view me and my values in the same light as her and her values....by association if you will.
Then you said: No one says that John effin' Kerry "invites it on himself" when he says or does something idiotic...
I'd say the Swift Boat folk, and many other veterans, including me, cut him to ribbons and impugned his character a lot more seriously than anyone has done to Palin...and for good reason, he's scum.
Then you said: many regular folks, who live a similar lifestyle and have a similar manner of expressing themselves, can relate to her in a way they can't to the political elites...[snip]....She speaks for an angry and frustrated working class. No one else will.
Agggghhhh! Oh, please. Similar lifestyle? Job quitter to boot? House on a lake with a plane in the driveway? Another house on another lake for vacations? $1 Million+ RV for family traveling? Not to mention every other motorized conveyance known to man. Please go watch the television reality show, please please please. Then tell me how many folks you know and hang out with regularly who have a lifestyle like that?
Her professed speaking for regular folks is a schtick, nothing more. What is scary is that so many people actually "think" she's the real deal.
Conservatives need real leaders, not boot actresses. Especially not ones who are such easy targets for spoofing. I mean, seriously, even I can rip her to shreds over her knowledge of her own state. Prior example: Kavik has a single passenger bush plane only runway? Please, she was there!...she saw it! It is semi-paved macadam surfaced. But she just had to say it was something else? ON such a small thing she fibs? Why?
Until the conservatives manage to put up a few real leaders, I'll continue to be mostly concerned about the beer.
Though come on, surely you've known and worked with the perfect, and authentic, bullshitters at one time or another. Many of them likely your boss at the time. I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, by the way. I have days when I think the world turns on a shit lubed screw. Where truth would turn the screw to salt and we'd all become Morton's finest.
Come on, pull that hand out of that pocket and rip that tape off.
Here, I'll give you a start. What 'exactly' has Palin done to deserve the onslaught of hate thrown at her since the very first day of her nomination. And now, nearly two years later, why does it still continue.
I think this would be a good thesis for some budding PhD. I know that the country is always, and with damn good reason, afraid of populists and flash in the pan 'solutions'. Think of Huey Long, and many others that I'm too damn lazy to remember.
But even then, the hate, the absolute detesting hate is something new, I think. Well, then again, there's always been that aspect I suppose in our National Dicourse... I guess we're only as insane as we've ever been.
History is the great teacher. And that is becoming not only not taught, but when it is it's but a revisionist version as well. The Gramiscian (sp) plan is working as planned.
Pssst: I really think you are conflating "hate" by the left with "derision and mockery."
Pssst pssst: Palin could improve her image drastically by just not making stuff up! Seriously. She makes herself and her family "targets" for even the dullest opposition. It has to be on purpose ... "any publicity" and all that schtick.
Seriously, folks, the country is in a unfortunate spiral from my perspective. History is being revised by B-O-T-H sides, words now have more meaning than actions.
One example: today's view of John F Kennedy's innaugural speech.
How in the world does an author get a "more government" call from "ask not what your country can do for you [more government], but what you can do for your country [participation in Exceptionalism]?
How does the same author draw any real parallel between JFK and BHO? The only parallel is in the imagery created by media and spinners, not in the reality.
As some one who heard Kennedy speak live I can tell you that well intentioned or not, the author of this piece just has no clue. Not of the import of the ideals, nor the impact on the audiences of those days of the 1960's.
Lacking that, we are we going? We don't seem to recall where we've been.
Seriously, folks, the country is in a unfortunate spiral from my perspective. History is being revised by B-O-T-H sides, words now have more meaning than actions.
Yes, I feel the same way. It's a national calliope from hell.
I don't know... yes, perhaps hate is too strong a term but I certainly think it is more than just "derision and mockery". As this piece by Victor Davis Hanson ably points out the mockery and derision, at least from the MSM, is limited to one person only, Palin.
And again, what, exactly, has Palin done to deserve such mockery and derision. What is it that she is making up? I'm assuming you mean her shooting skills, the frontier woman facade she has erected around herself. But those aren't the things that the left/MSM (same thing) derides her about so far as I've seen. I mean Christ on a crutch why isn't Andy Sullivan being mocked and derided for his obsessive interest in Sarah's uterus. Why did the Tucson shooting have to involve Palin? Because of something she 'said'. Hell no. Because either the Left/MSM is deathly afraid of her or else their emotions severely clouds their collective judgment.
I'm not saying the woman doesn't have her faults, of course she does. But I in no way believe that her faults are equal to the treatment she receives. And now, as Florie points out in her link to Kathy Griffin, 'they' are going after 16 year old Willow. Allegedly because Willow used the word faggot in a Facebook post. So here we have a 50 year old woman going after a 16 year old because of an injudicious use of a term. Fucking thought police. Just like the Brit's stripping out that line from the Dire Straits song. Ah hell, I digressed.
I really don't have the interest in Palin to be defending her as I am. I just think she is getting a raw deal is all. Yes, I do agree with most of your personal criticism's of her Ari, but on the other hand she did and does manage to speak to feelings that a large number of people hold dear. As a matter of fact I'll go you one better, in your comment about JFK and the author's misunderstanding of the country's history. I'll take a wild stab and say that among the leading politicians of today only Palin might give such a speech as JFK and be understood in the same context as JFK was. Heh... I guess what I'm trying to say is that if push came to shove I believe Palin would have my six, and for the 'right' reasons. I don't feel that way about any other major name in politics.
I think we have to be careful about who we promote as leaders. We need to find substance and not mere noise, and that may mean aligning with some leadership that has warts.
Like it or not, as we speak, given one's opinions on Nixon's foibles .... President Hu Jintao of China is visiting the USA .... that is a d-i-r-e-c-t result of Nixon's reach out to China long ago. The man cursed for being warlike and spiteful, actually made perhaps the most influential gesture of peace in the 20th century.
In general the 60's and 70's were heady times, both good and bad. Among the good things were the Civil rights Act and the Voting Rights Act ... neither passed by snide liberal elitists, but by ordinary men, of both parties, of substance in extraordinary times.
In those times we didn't have to pass something to find out what was in the bill.
Well, I guess it's the theme of the day. Here's another take on Palin hatred from James Taranto in the WSJ. He advances a thesis that the hate springs mostly from women. Does a pretty good job of supporting his point of view, I think.
His summation...
"What about male Palin-hatred? It seems to us that it is of decidedly secondary importance. Liberal men put down Palin as a cheap way to score points with the women in their lives, or they use her as an outlet for more-general misogynistic impulses that would otherwise be socially unacceptable to express.
Liberal women are the active, driving force behind hatred of Sarah Palin, while liberal men's behavior is passive and manipulative. In this respect, feminism has succeeded in reversing the traditional sexual stereotypes. If this is the result, you have to wonder why anyone would have bothered."
If your comment about being careful as to whom we promote as leaders was directed at my comments... be assured that was not my intent here. That's a whole separate issue.
Luther ... to be honest, Palin tires me, bores me to tears. There is no there there. If she is what we call a "leader" today, we're f**ked.
Re: Andrew Sullivan ...do you really know anyone who pays a whit of attention to that girlish dweeb? On a scale of 1 to 10, his opinions are about -5 in importance.
Palin's "raw deal" has made her a multi-millionaire (she's the Lady Gaga of conservative politics) ... a rather big step up from her expressed pecuniary reason for quitting the governorship of Alaska. She revels in her abuse, and can't stop talking about it. Watch her "reality show" ... see how many times she refers to her victim hood. Every episode, multiple times.
Tell me who and what you think Palin would be today if John McCain had not nominated her in 2008?
The only "six" Palin has is her own. Any semblance to JFK's ideals would be contrived ... just what has she done in her life to understand those ideals? Why does she contrive this "frontier woman" facade that is ludicrous?
Luther # 48 ... no, my comment was not about your comments. I mean it literally, that we generally seem to select leaders superficially. At this rate Kim Kardashian will be President one day ... style over substance.
I am all for public discourse. On that topic I actually think the "left" dislikes Palin because she is so much like them ... how dare she gain fame and fortune (just like them) by being all mouth no grit experience!?
If this becomes the "norm" for leadership of both parties, what then? We elevate mediocrity and pay the price. I don't see much difference, really, between Pelosi and Palin. Neither is brilliant, but both are cunning (big difference) and happily dictatorial when they can get away with it.
Yes, both sides are to blame. Don't forget how Hillary was pilloried (sorry, couldn't resist) in 2008.
I think this is what the average American is so sick of. The rhetoric, the ridiculous candidates being offered up for election, our inept, self-aggrandizing congress. It's disheartening. No, it's more than that, it's infuriating.
Funny how if you Google "Batsh*t Crazy", images or web, how many references you get to Mizz Wasilla.
As far as the number or articles about Barbie .... impossible for that to happen if not instigated or invited. Impossible ... she DOES know how to "work" the media, and the frothing pundits therein, and even how to play the "defiant victim" role ... all the better to enhance her everyone-loves-the-underdog schtick.
One of her best lines yet ..." I won't shut up!" utter this week. Uh, did anyone in the solar system think she would shut up and needed to be reminded?
In summary, I'd prefer something other than noise in a candidate. As I've said before, we already have the rhetoric king in office now. How's that workin' out fer ya?
Have we, as a democracy, reached that point where no truly creative, skilled, and inspired leaders can arise? Tell me, among the recent batches of candidates over the past dozen years, who among them would you let run your checking and savings accounts? Let alone your house, or the fookin' country?
Have we achieved the inevitable, in our search for "purity" in candidates? Anyone with actual enduring skills will have some warts and scars. However, today it seems only the village idiots can run, dares run, or cares to run, for office.
Florie ... I know about Allen West, not so much about Rubio or Ryan. West has leadership skills and experience and seems inclined to conservative values. However, none of those have been "tested" on the national stage .... e.g., had their closets vetted for skeletons, real or presumed or merely alleged.
In today's political climate military men & women are subject to intense scrutiny for "proper" behavior in essentially "civilian" terms. Formal charges are brought on hearsay alone (think the Sgt Nazario case, among many others) and occasionally convictions are meted out.
In this "new" world it is likely that WWII (Band of Brothers) Major Richard Winters might have been charged with war crimes, and Lt Col Ronald Speirs definitely would have been. Given this environment, I am uncertain how Allen West can stand up politically to the bleeding hearts who've never been in harm's way.
But I can hope for the best. AS I said earlier here, the best leaders will have some warts and scars. Those pretenders who do not have never done anything.
If excoriating Palin on a daily basis doesn't do the job, erase her!
It never even occurs to these so-called "journalists" to cover Palin as they would any other news story. They are incapable, hamstrung by their own frenzied politics and their pathetic need to "fit in" with the kewl kidz.
I'm declaring February "No Milbank" month. Who's with me? Gee, doesn't that sound stupid?
Lady Red ....ah ha, perhaps a leftie has figured out Palin's schtick ... the more they write about her, the more attention she gets overall. I know many folks don't believe me, but Palin's attention whoring is legendary, IMO. Those pundits who've "excoriated" her delight her, trust me on that...they hand her a bully pulpit. Victim-hood sells.
All that would be good ...IF she had anything else to offer than talk.
BTW ... Every month is "no Milbank" month around here.
"How in the world does an author get a "more government" call from "ask not what your country can do for you [more government], but what you can do for your country [participation in Exceptionalism]?"
If Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush had said that, the quote would be used as an example of their fascism -- how all the people would be little cogs in furthering an evil government. I do not believe that is the way Kennedy meant it. I think it is an inspiring quote. However, the left brought this on. They just don't like playing by the rules they wrote.
Interesting, DwT. I wonder what would have happened if that call had been taken.
ReplyDeleteAs it is a Bowl day I'm going to do a little armchair QB'ing. But first I'm going to point to this tidbit from a local Tucson blogger. Their is absolutely no independent verification of this, and the blogger is protecting his source. But here...
"Jared Loughner has been making death threats by phone to many people in Pima County including staff of Pima Community College, radio personalities and local bloggers. When Pima County Sheriff’s Office was informed, his deputies assured the victims that he was being well managed by the mental health system. It was also suggested that further pressing of charges would be unnecessary and probably cause more problems than it solved as Jared Loughner has a family member that works for Pima County. Amy Loughner is a Natural Resource specialist for the Pima County Parks and Recreation. My sympathies and my heart goes out to her and the rest of Mr. Loughner’s family. This tragedy must be tearing them up inside wondering if they had done the right things in trying to manage Jared’s obvious mental instability."
Here's the blog...
http://thechollajumps.wordpress.com/2011/01/09/jared-loughner-is-a-product-of-sheriff-dupniks-office/
Who knows. I certainly wouldn't have a hard time believing the above is true. I bet we've all seen, heard or expericed something similar. Friends of friends getting special treatment. And I'm not condemning that, it's human nature.
If you look at the smirk on Jared's booking picture I'm quite sure he is enjoying every moment of this, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure I would even classify him as insane, really. I think he knew/knows exactly what it is that he is doing. He's a self-centered, narcissistic asshole who wanted his 15 minutes. And now we're all playing his game.
The creep's booking photo is bizarre. It gives me goosebumps, and not in a good way.
ReplyDeleteI wish the media would STFU, and stop showing his picture and saying his name. I'm sickened by all the breathless "coverage".
If you look at the smirk on Jared's booking picture I'm quite sure he is enjoying every moment of this, and will continue to do so. I'm not sure I would even classify him as insane, really. I think he knew/knows exactly what it is that he is doing. He's a self-centered, narcissistic asshole who wanted his 15 minutes. And now we're all playing his game.
ReplyDeleteI think you're right on the money, Luther. As others have said, it's a shame no one in the crowd was packing when this happened.
I wish the media would STFU, and stop showing his picture and saying his name. I'm sickened by all the breathless "coverage".
I couldn't say it any better, lady red. I click on Drudge and there is a creepy photo of him there. I can't take any more of the coverage, thank gawd for sports and Zuma.
Luther - I've read "the cholla" and it's a very explosive post.
ReplyDeleteIf he's right, sheriff Dupnik will have some 'splainin' to do. srsly.
If he's wrong, then he's just massively slandered Dupnik. The post has gone completely viral at this point, it's everywhere in the right blogosphere. It will be pretty tough to "walk it back".
The "cholla" himself looks to be a formidable and serious person - doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would make sh*t up 'cause it fits his narrative. OTOH, he has absolutely no corroboration.
He will likely come under some pretty intense scrutiny.
Dances - thanks for posting this.
ReplyDeleteWhen I first read Loughner's YouTube rants, I figured him for a paranoid schiz.
Reading the MJ piece it seems he's not clinically insane. He's a kind of sociopath - a self made sociopath.
I've encountered the following metaphor in more than one faith: if you bang on God's door long enough, and loud enough, eventually He will answer.
Thing is - you bang on the gates of hell, and the devil eventually comes out to answer, too.
Now - my belief - many people screw around in regrettable ways in this life but very few actually bang on the gates of hell.
Those with a less indulgent view of "sin" will disagree with me here, and might well ask, OK, what does "banging on the gates of hell" look like then?
It looks like what Loughner did.
The not very right wing LA Times sums up Sheriff Clarence Duprik quite well right here. He's a motor mouth and unlike any cop I've ever known, and that is a lot.
ReplyDeleteThis is how the "What, me worry?" guy looks today....taken in the millisecond he was able to pull away from a mirror or TV camera.
ReplyDeleteimgw:"http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0148c7800b26970c-400wi"
Look a bit alike ....Wonder if Duprik and Loughner both live in "lucid dreams?"
ReplyDeleteimgw:"https://motherjones.com/files/images/loughner-mugshot.jpg"
taken in the millisecond he was able to pull away from a mirror or TV camera.
ReplyDeletelol
Ain't that the truth?
I just can't look at the other picture, he is reveling in the notoriety. Sickening.
First day back at work yesterday, so, busy. Looks like there may be something to 'the cholla's' report. Of course all the information is being 'properly vetted' before release. Plus new info from someone who'd been hanging with Jared.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/12/us/12loughner.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss
Narcissistic nihilist.
I'm surprised with Jared's interest in lucid dreaming he didn't list Castaneda's work in his favorite books.
Yes, Lady Red, I do believe he is reveling in the notoriety and the chaos he has created, leading into...
I can't believe all the bullshit that lawmakers are coming up with due to this shooting.
What a bunch of short sighted jackasses. They'll do anything for political gain, anything. I've no respect for the lot of them. Well, a rare few perhaps, but it's a damn short list.
Luther....Good to hear you're healed up and all that.
ReplyDeleteNext ... I, for one, believe the Cholla's report is mostly dead on the money. And Duprik is no cop of any merit, as he seems to miss the "serve and protect" aspect of police work. He quickly assigns a failure to protect on his part to others....distant others.
Yeah, Sharon Angle and Sarah Palin et al., have made use of stupid metaphors and analogies to guns and ammo equivalences to votes and change. The need to STFU on the topic. However, they aren't alone ... Dear Leader has used similar metaphors and analogies ... "if you bring a knife, we'll bring a gun" or something like that, along with a few others.
Duprik's a stooge who now seems to emulate a Shakespearian line by protesting too much. If the psychotic had just come in from out of town, out of county jurisdiction, I might buy that Pima County Sheriff's office had done their job. But he didn't, he had a history with Pima County ... and there you go.
Luther ... off topic, but you might find it of interest...health care wise.
ReplyDeleteYour experience has made me much more careful. Well, yours and my old friend in Montana who managed to break his ankle in December. Number one, he's a priority one VA Health Care patient ... e.g., purportedly full coverage. Period.
A dubious position since he must go to facilities the local VA director dictates. The current director is solely concerned with reducing VA costs and has cut out many "patient-local" sources for service.
Okay, here you go ... my friend broke his right ankle and upon a call to VA was directed to go to the VA hospital ER at Fort Harrison in Great Falls, a two and 1/2 hour drive north of his home. Many much nearer facilities, for the ER work at least, in between, were not allowed.
Fort Harrison is a first rate hospital but getting there isn't always easy, fortunately he has local buddies who will drive him. I've even done it when necessary when out there. Problem is now that the ankle bone(s) have not healed properly, partially due to the delay in setting them, so today he has surgery to implant a screw or pin, etc. out-patient yet, then drive home, by another, obviously.
He's pleased with Fort Harrison, but not so much with the initial ER service available. He's planning to add Medicare Part B soonest, as the VA system, even Priority One, doesn't handle emergency things very well.
This is an example of how federal "managers" handle health care. Welcome to Pelosi Care all y'all....it cannot be any different.
Thanks, Ari. Though not exactly healed up as yet but certainly well along in the process. I must admit that is has been an arduous ordeal. Not so much the actual physical recovery, though it has been tedious enough, but the psychological aspects after surgery which were unexpected by me. Let's just say intimations of mortality and/or end of life reliance on others made a forceful imprint on my psyche. I don't want to go out dependent is the bottom line I suppose though I'm not sure there are many other options available. I'm not sure I have the fortitude to make that last lonely walk into the snow covered woods... so to speak. Enough of that.
ReplyDeleteBut yes, do be careful. Though my simple slip and fall was among many minor things that are difficult to guard against, if you know what I mean.
Ah, health care. Your friends situation is most deplorable, he has my utmost empathy. Yet, once again we see that the promises made to us in return for our service don't hold up very well in the real world. I have delayed, mostly out of laziness, signing up for Tri-Care as I am still employed and have good coverage. From your recounting perhaps I was prescient in doing so. Oh, everyone is different, but it was 16 days between my injury and surgery so perhaps it wasn't the delay your friend had to endure but other reasons for his continued complications. Either way, again, I'm sorry he is having to go through all that.
Well, sorry for the rambling off topic. I, too, agree that Duprik is no cop of merit. We were watching coverage the day of the shooting and I admit my jaw dropping to the floor as Duprik gave his first press briefing. I was yelling at the TV as a matter of fact, as he starting out with his climate of hate speech... he had no business interjecting his fucking OPINION into that news conference. Extremely unprofessional. Though I suspect he had been conferring with local Dem powers that be as to his presentation. I don't believe he is smart enough to have figured that out on his on. And yes, the timing is certainly suspect that a day or so after the 'cholla' report the Sheriffs Dept. unexpectedly finds evidence of prior visits with Mr. Loughner. There's a skunk in the woodpile there I think.
I disagree about Angle, Palin, the O, et. al. shutting up with stupid metaphors, etc. There are already too many areas of speech that are too sensitive to be uttered out loud. Too many restrictions on what can and can't be said in public discourse. I'm disgusted that some talk about laws against 'hate' speech in this country. I could dress it out with my opinion but short story is, it's all bullshit. When people can't say what they want and/or think then everyone walks in the dark.
Interesting.
ReplyDeletehttp://jammiewearingfool.blogspot.com/2011/01/heckuva-job-officers-stopped-loughner.html
Though I can't think of any reason at all why this traffic stop should have been anything other than what it was. Other interesting little tidbits there as well.
Watching the memorial speeches, it came to me that what disturbs is the conflation that a politician being shot is different, and worth more, than that of a crack addicted whore suffering the same. I'm not a Jared, but I do chaff at the hypocrisy of it all.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I'll regret this tomorrow... but I'm not sure of that.
Ari, Noah will have to drive all the way to Little Rock if he gets sick or injured. We pay for the small stuff out-of-pocket, rather than drive 2 1/2 hours to the overcrowded VA complex in LR.
ReplyDeleteLuther, we watched Ghost Hunters International last night. We've had all the hypocrisy and self-serving BS we can take for one week.
Luther...my reason for saying Angle and Palin should STFU with the guns & ammo analogies is NOT because I think speech should be restricted. It IS because reckless speech can be used against anyone connected to you, let alone your own cause. In short, they "draw fire" on anyone centrist or right...and for a long time.
ReplyDeleteAngle's failure in Nevada against Wedgie Man Reid no doubt was helped along by her literal equivalence of either votes, or failing that, bullets. She's a political moron. She even claimed that my home town was under Sharia Law and asserted we're a hotbed of terrorists. I doubt she's ever even been here.
I am all for supporting free speech, but not reckless speech under circumstances that can make it dangerous. (fire in crowded theater analogy here) I find Palin a fraud because it is blatantly obvious fro her TV show she has near zero knowledge of guns or hunting. I dislike Angle because she literally equated votes with bullets. Idiot.
The entire concept of the American Revolution and subsequent Constitution, with Amendments, was to form a nation that never again would have to revert to "bullets" to bring about change...and it was tested in the Civil War, where dissident bullets literally replaced votes. Thus, it was a damn dumb comment for Angle to make.
Angle's failure in Nevada against Wedgie Man Reid no doubt was helped along by her literal equivalence of either votes, or failing that, bullets. She's a political moron. She even claimed that my home town was under Sharia Law and asserted we're a hotbed of terrorists. I doubt she's ever even been here.
ReplyDeleteBrother. It just galls me every time I see Harry Reid open his mouth that the Republican party couldn't bother to put a decent candidate up against him. Mr. Ed probably would have beaten him by a landslide.
Guns and ammo analogies, or any other, can happen not just because one explicitly knows them but because one lives around, or near those who do. Just like any analogy. Just like speech patterns, idioms, anachronisms and other such complexities of the spoken word. I talk out my ass all the time about things of which I have no direct knowledge, but am usually close to correct based on life experience, general knowledge, and a myriad of other factors.
ReplyDeleteAs far as reckless speech goes I'm damn sure guilty of that. I'd hate like hell for anyone here to be tagged by association with me and my thoughts on the current world. A good reason to shut the fuck up I guess.
I'm not familiar with Angle's comment about votes=bullets. I'd just say that sometimes that is a true statement. All I know is that in my war I could have given a shit less about the details. I was there in the hopes of giving another poor MF a chance to live in freedom. Yep, a damn naive and ignorant view of how things really are. But that's who I was at the time. I guess I've haven't grown since then.
Whoa there, Luther....you're reading things in to my words. "Our" war was, in fact, an instance where bullets replaced votes, where force replaced debate and accommodation in a multi-ethnic tiny nation. That IS precisely why I find Angle's line of thought objectionable.
ReplyDeleteYes, I too felt I was there to help the various ethic nationals establish a free country, and still think that, as far as my own purposes go. Yep, we get called naive now and then, almost always by those who were not there or in fact know nothing of the times. The idea was the embodiment of John F Kennedy's values ... something the Democrats of today have no clue about or seek to revise to some weak kneed pitiful version.
And you're right, we and our buddies did not give a shit about the "details" per se. Problem was, and is now, that those details are contrived by cake eaters who sit in safety but influence actions in the field, in various endeavors. Thus, speaking for myself, I'd prefer politicians keep their metaphors to things they actually know something about when creating analogous scenarios.
Palin is mostly harmless, but many people believe she is functionally skilled when all it is is rhetoric. We already have one of those in the Oval Office. It's been done.
Angle, OTOH, is a bona fide lunatic and Reid is right about the Nevada Repubs failing to field a lucid candidate...much as it pains me to say it. Of course, that makes Nevada no worse than Alaska and Delaware. Palin sure had her finger on the pulse of those races, eh?
To clarify a bit: My take on votes versus bullets equivalences in Vietnam is that the PAVN of North Vietnam was blatantly seeking results via Mao's dictum: Power flows from the barrel of a gun.
ReplyDeleteIt is outright falsehood that the north wasn't invading the south until after Tet '68, when the VC were demolished. The PAVN was present in the Central Highlands of South Vietnam in 1965 and were the principal enemy combatants during the Battle of the Ia Drang Valley. Bullets versus votes personified.
Any similar equivalence drawn now, rhetorically or actually, is anathema to my way of thinking. Bullets do not, and cannot, replace votes in a free society.
I feel the same way about the bring a gun to a knife fight analogy Obama made a while back....a coincidental plagiarism of the line in the movie "The Untouchables?" No matter, it was stupid. A rhetorical flexing of political power muscle is not political fitness...e.g, it's trash talk and that's it. Same for anyone who uses it.
I apologize for any offense, Ari. None was meant.
ReplyDeleteI suppose I should have kept quiet as I admitted I was not familiar with Angle's exact quote, context or not. And to be honest/clear I don't know enough about the woman to make a cogent comment one way or the other about her mental stability or fitness for anything, much less political office.
Agree on trash talk. At least for the O that is him playing the tough 'with it' guy.
It was 67-8 but I know in Northern I Corps we never ran into VC, only NVA.
As an aside, and slightly back on topic. I've been thinking about how for years we've been told that depictions/talk/lyrics of violence in movies, games, rap music, etc., have absolutely no effect on anyone. That everyone realizes that it is just 'make believe'. Especially perhaps, those impressionable youth in the 15/25 age bracket.
ReplyDeleteHow is it that now, all of a sudden, mere phrases, even single words, have the power to enrage, inflame, and induce someone to go out and shoot 20 people. What changed?
That doesn't make sense to me.
The loony left doesn't have to make sense, they just have to spout their shyte because they know it will be immediately vomited back up by their reliable toadies (Huffpo, Kos, Olberman, Matthews, Npr, blah, blah, blah). I love it that Mark Levin has taken a stand against the people smearing him (Matthews named him directly) and said he WILL sue. Good on ya, Mark.
ReplyDeleteLuther .... no apology needed, we exchange ideas not take offense at them. I acknowledge I am very likely over-sensitive on the guns and weapons issue. Anyone around me mentions offensive use of knife or gun I expect to see them pull one, and I am likely to act accordingly, by whatever means necessary, even if they don't and are just woofing. Our experiences have shown us what weapons can do, so it's no metaphor or rhetorical device to me.
ReplyDeleteI even irritated a few of my Trap Shooting Club cohorts a while back when I objected to members having a couple of beers then picking up shotguns to "try" from the rack, etc., or worse, going back out to the stands to shoot another round. The board agreed with me (lawyers do some good, really :-), however, and it was made a firm rule...even one beer, and you're done shooting for the day and you stay away from the gun rack. I've seen the results of an "unloaded" M-16 playfully pointed at another GI's head from 10 feet away. I don't need a repeat.
I agree with you that games and rhetoric don't inspire violence per se. "Words" are just words, however, when one addresses a public group (not a game or television or movie fiction show)with weapons terms you are bordering on incitement. There are sufficient studies on mob violence instigation to make that understandable I'd think....e.g., when Angle suggested a "Second Amendment solution" instead of a political one (unless one adheres to Mao's dictum) she is being an inciter.
Palin is just a charming, albeit pathetic, bullshitter. Typical example: In her "Reality" show, the episode about caribou hunting (I only watched 5 re-plays to settle an argument) Palin flat out says, more than once, only one kind of plane, a pilot and one passenger model, can land there because it is so remote and rugged. It is remote, that's a given. The location was Kavik, Alaska, on the Kavik River...the location of her "hunt." Guess she's unaware that Kavik was part of the "DEW Line" and the airstrip was built to handle up to at least C-47 aircraft (military version of Douglas DC-3 airliner)which could carry 20 to 30 passengers. She's also unaware that the main Alaskan "bush" regional airline regularly flies hunters in to Kavik in aircraft carrying 4 to 6 passengers?
Harmless exaggeration, true, but indicative of her mind set IMO. I cannot take her seriously....the more she yaks, the worse she makes it for reasonable others.
Dang I am struggling awkwardly with this weapons rhetoric and violence thing. It is simple: I do NOT think the yammering of Angle or Palin caused the crime in Tucson, nor do I think violent video games caused it ... although they do pervert reality extensively to naive minds and armchair generals.
ReplyDeleteI DO think the yammering of Angle, Palin, et al., on the weapons thing makes it way too easy for the left to pitch a hissy fit and whine. That is just plain stupid, selfish, or both. The effect is to hurt other more rational truthful speakers and advocates.
I DO think the yammering of Angle, Palin, et al., on the weapons thing makes it way too easy for the left to pitch a hissy fit and whine
ReplyDeleteYes, I think that is true, but I also think that the far left is NEVER happy. They ALWAYS have something to bitch and whine about. It's what they do. They learn social hand-wringing and eco-angst in college, and it goes downhill from there.
The Group That Shall Not Be Named picked some really far-out candidates in the last election. I think that had to happen before they could settle to a conservative middle ground. Now that the "growing pains" are over, perhaps some better choices will be made in 2012.
Conservatives need to run brilliant, far-sighted, stable candidates. Unfortunately, most conservatives with a triple-digit IQ are smart enough to stay away from the political cesspool. They know their families will be dragged through the muck on a relentless basis, and that every comment they ever uttered will be held up to intense and biased scrutiny by our so-called media.
I think it takes a tremendous amount of courage to stand up to the far left "group think" mentality and drama. Who will do so? I don't know.
As far as Palin goes, I've never in my life seen such hatred directed at anyone, not Hitler, not Stalin, not Timothy McVeigh. It's wildly out of proportion to her place in our society. She's not a monster, or a criminal, or evil incarnate. She's just a broad from Wasilla who has enough mettle to stand her ground against a ferocious, brutal onslaught that shows no sign of abating.
ReplyDeleteI may not vote for her for President (unless she runs against BO), but I admire her fortitude in the face of unprecedented and unreasonable persecution. If she is not allowed to speak and express her ideas, then neither am I.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLady Red...several things:
ReplyDelete1. I don't "hate" Palin or anyone else. Closest thing to "hate" in me is reserved for the likes of Jane Fonda, John Kerry, William Ayers, et al.
2. I dislike Palin because she prevaricates on topics, large and small, and makes "regular people" she presumes to represent seem dumb. There is no need to prevaricate and make up stuff. That said, I , too, believe she has the right to be heard....that we all do.
3. I'd buy the "persecution" syndrome on Palin if it was limited to 2008-2009. In 2010 she has gone out of her way to invite it and that's a whole 'nuther story ... again making her audience appear foolish or stupid. She has made "political self defense" her "schtick" and grown wealthy doing so.
4. I do not believe for a moment that any far left liberal is even slightly awed by Palin, let alone scared ... she is a better mocking target than any they could have created alone.
5. Henceforth I will try mightily to avoid and refrain from any further comment on Palin, Angle, O'Donnell, et al., as they really have no actual impact on our future. At least not my future. I do this, in no small part, to keep the peace in my own domicile where the topic rife with snark now and then.
Last shots =))
imgw:"http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/aridog/alg_resize_odonnell_palin.jpg"
imgw:"http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/aridog/213557850-L.jpg"
imgw:"http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/aridog/AB006359.jpg"
And my "take" on it all.... :)
imgw:"http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/aridog/Protestors-oldfolks.jpg"
Aridog, LMAO at your last image!
ReplyDeleteI wasn't singling you out for my Palin comments; it's everywhere. The networks, the newspapers, the magazines...EVERYWHERE. As far as us 'uns on TCKT, we'll just have to agree to disagree when it comes to Palin. After one more observation, of course...:D
Why should Palin shut up? She's obviously preparing to run for President. No one says that John effin' Kerry "invites it on himself" when he says or does something idiotic, because the media doesn't savagely attack him. Same with Biden. I can't believe the crap that comes out of that man's mouth! Is anyone ripping his family to shreds? Nope. Al Franken gets a pass, as did Grayson before he was kicked to the curb. Pelosi and Dingy Harry? And BO himself? They get a cuddle and a pat on the head. It's ridiculous.
I know why you have issues with her, and they're valid. Shooting any animal out of a plane is sick. But the left could care less about dead wolves; they're reacting at a gut-level to something else...I'm not exactly sure what it is that sends them into a frenzy. But many regular folks, who live a similar lifestyle and have a similar manner of expressing themselves, can relate to her in a way they can't to the political elites.
The more Palin gets bashed, the more supporters she will have. People feel like they are defending their own turf when they line up behind her. She speaks for an angry and frustrated working class. No one else will.
And that's my last word on Palin. Or not. :))
A little something to send Ari over the edge... :)
ReplyDeletehttp://www.huffingtonpost.com/video/video_3813.html?1295033005
My 'last word'. Yeh, Sarah may be fully full of shit, but to my mind it is authentic shit. I don't think it is an act in other words. It's just how she comes across.
I still think of Buckley and his comment about the first 100 names from the phone book in how most would likely do a better job than the clowns we have now. I don't see how Sarah could be any worse than the 'O', frankly. I would at least know that she wasn't intentionally trying to destroy the country.
Man, you've forced me to break my "vow" already....seduction I call it!!
ReplyDeleteLady Red said: Why should Palin shut up?
I'm not suggesting she shut up, just stop making stuff up.
That, and be herself, stop trying to be something she is not, in particular not anymore. My disdain for her wildlife ideals are only enhanced as I learn how little she really knows about it. Near nothing.
As for her family, they'll get respite when she stops featuring them. Note that the least featured member Todd gets the least flak.
In fact, I said clearly (I thought) she has the right to speak out. That she makes a fool of herself frequently is not my problem. Except when people view me and my values in the same light as her and her values....by association if you will.
Then you said: No one says that John effin' Kerry "invites it on himself" when he says or does something idiotic...
I'd say the Swift Boat folk, and many other veterans, including me, cut him to ribbons and impugned his character a lot more seriously than anyone has done to Palin...and for good reason, he's scum.
Then you said: many regular folks, who live a similar lifestyle and have a similar manner of expressing themselves, can relate to her in a way they can't to the political elites...[snip]....She speaks for an angry and frustrated working class. No one else will.
Agggghhhh! Oh, please. Similar lifestyle? Job quitter to boot? House on a lake with a plane in the driveway? Another house on another lake for vacations? $1 Million+ RV for family traveling? Not to mention every other motorized conveyance known to man. Please go watch the television reality show, please please please. Then tell me how many folks you know and hang out with regularly who have a lifestyle like that?
Her professed speaking for regular folks is a schtick, nothing more. What is scary is that so many people actually "think" she's the real deal.
Conservatives need real leaders, not boot actresses. Especially not ones who are such easy targets for spoofing. I mean, seriously, even I can rip her to shreds over her knowledge of her own state. Prior example: Kavik has a single passenger bush plane only runway? Please, she was there!...she saw it! It is semi-paved macadam surfaced. But she just had to say it was something else? ON such a small thing she fibs? Why?
Until the conservatives manage to put up a few real leaders, I'll continue to be mostly concerned about the beer.
Luther ... you have it exactly right, Mizz Palin is pure "authentic shit." :))
ReplyDeleteHowever, I am fascinated with the idea of how "bullshit" can be "authentic" per se.
Whoa!! A pig just flew by my window!! =))
Luther said: "A little something to to send Ari over the edge... "
ReplyDelete8-} ~X b-(
Heh... perfect, Ari. That last vid.
ReplyDeleteThough come on, surely you've known and worked with the perfect, and authentic, bullshitters at one time or another. Many of them likely your boss at the time. I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad thing, by the way. I have days when I think the world turns on a shit lubed screw. Where truth would turn the screw to salt and we'd all become Morton's finest.
Luther said: "...I think the world turns on a shit lubed screw."
ReplyDeleteYou have a point. That's the problem IMO. Bull crap is now the "leadership language" of both sides, all sides. Everyone else doesn't matter.
Let me say, I don't really like Palin. She just rubs me the wrong way. I make light of bullshit, but really, she does have that air about her.
ReplyDeleteBut damn. I'm starting to respect her based just on the hate and dementia she causes to rise. Sullivan for a prime example.
Palin has done nothing to deserve this in my opinion. Though sure, Ari, I agree with your take on her obliviousness on wildlife.
But really, if the left is so fucking afraid of her she must be doing something right. I like that.
Re: Luther's # 38 ....
ReplyDeleteimgw:"http://images.clipartof.com/small/5690-Gagged-Man-With-Tape-Over-His-Mouth-Poster-Art-Print.jpg"
Come on, pull that hand out of that pocket and rip that tape off.
ReplyDeleteHere, I'll give you a start. What 'exactly' has Palin done to deserve the onslaught of hate thrown at her since the very first day of her nomination. And now, nearly two years later, why does it still continue.
I think this would be a good thesis for some budding PhD. I know that the country is always, and with damn good reason, afraid of populists and flash in the pan 'solutions'. Think of Huey Long, and many others that I'm too damn lazy to remember.
But even then, the hate, the absolute detesting hate is something new, I think. Well, then again, there's always been that aspect I suppose in our National Dicourse... I guess we're only as insane as we've ever been.
History is the great teacher. And that is becoming not only not taught, but when it is it's but a revisionist version as well. The Gramiscian (sp) plan is working as planned.
Luther, I agree. Now so-called "comedienne" Kathy Griffin is going after 16-yr old Willow Palin.
ReplyDeleteLet's see how much lower she can sink
I figured she'd change her schtick after the troops booed her for going after Bristol. Apparently not.
imgw:"http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/4741/ist2471359womanwithpape.jpg"
ReplyDeletePssst: I really think you are conflating "hate" by the left with "derision and mockery."
Pssst pssst: Palin could improve her image drastically by just not making stuff up! Seriously. She makes herself and her family "targets" for even the dullest opposition. It has to be on purpose ... "any publicity" and all that schtick.
Seriously, folks, the country is in a unfortunate spiral from my perspective. History is being revised by B-O-T-H sides, words now have more meaning than actions.
ReplyDeleteOne example: today's view of John F Kennedy's innaugural speech.
How in the world does an author get a "more government" call from "ask not what your country can do for you [more government], but what you can do for your country [participation in Exceptionalism]?
How does the same author draw any real parallel between JFK and BHO? The only parallel is in the imagery created by media and spinners, not in the reality.
As some one who heard Kennedy speak live I can tell you that well intentioned or not, the author of this piece just has no clue. Not of the import of the ideals, nor the impact on the audiences of those days of the 1960's.
Lacking that, we are we going? We don't seem to recall where we've been.
Seriously, folks, the country is in a unfortunate spiral from my perspective. History is being revised by B-O-T-H sides, words now have more meaning than actions.
ReplyDeleteYes, I feel the same way. It's a national calliope from hell.
I don't know... yes, perhaps hate is too strong a term but I certainly think it is more than just "derision and mockery". As this piece by Victor Davis Hanson ably points out the mockery and derision, at least from the MSM, is limited to one person only, Palin.
ReplyDeleteAnd again, what, exactly, has Palin done to deserve such mockery and derision. What is it that she is making up? I'm assuming you mean her shooting skills, the frontier woman facade she has erected around herself. But those aren't the things that the left/MSM (same thing) derides her about so far as I've seen. I mean Christ on a crutch why isn't Andy Sullivan being mocked and derided for his obsessive interest in Sarah's uterus. Why did the Tucson shooting have to involve Palin? Because of something she 'said'. Hell no. Because either the Left/MSM is deathly afraid of her or else their emotions severely clouds their collective judgment.
I'm not saying the woman doesn't have her faults, of course she does. But I in no way believe that her faults are equal to the treatment she receives. And now, as Florie points out in her link to Kathy Griffin, 'they' are going after 16 year old Willow. Allegedly because Willow used the word faggot in a Facebook post. So here we have a 50 year old woman going after a 16 year old because of an injudicious use of a term. Fucking thought police. Just like the Brit's stripping out that line from the Dire Straits song. Ah hell, I digressed.
I really don't have the interest in Palin to be defending her as I am. I just think she is getting a raw deal is all. Yes, I do agree with most of your personal criticism's of her Ari, but on the other hand she did and does manage to speak to feelings that a large number of people hold dear. As a matter of fact I'll go you one better, in your comment about JFK and the author's misunderstanding of the country's history. I'll take a wild stab and say that among the leading politicians of today only Palin might give such a speech as JFK and be understood in the same context as JFK was. Heh... I guess what I'm trying to say is that if push came to shove I believe Palin would have my six, and for the 'right' reasons. I don't feel that way about any other major name in politics.
Shit, maybe I've become a closet Palin lover. :)
I think we have to be careful about who we promote as leaders. We need to find substance and not mere noise, and that may mean aligning with some leadership that has warts.
ReplyDeleteLike it or not, as we speak, given one's opinions on Nixon's foibles .... President Hu Jintao of China is visiting the USA .... that is a d-i-r-e-c-t result of Nixon's reach out to China long ago. The man cursed for being warlike and spiteful, actually made perhaps the most influential gesture of peace in the 20th century.
In general the 60's and 70's were heady times, both good and bad. Among the good things were the Civil rights Act and the Voting Rights Act ... neither passed by snide liberal elitists, but by ordinary men, of both parties, of substance in extraordinary times.
In those times we didn't have to pass something to find out what was in the bill.
Well, I guess it's the theme of the day. Here's another take on Palin hatred from James Taranto in the WSJ. He advances a thesis that the hate springs mostly from women. Does a pretty good job of supporting his point of view, I think.
ReplyDeleteHis summation...
"What about male Palin-hatred? It seems to us that it is of decidedly secondary importance. Liberal men put down Palin as a cheap way to score points with the women in their lives, or they use her as an outlet for more-general misogynistic impulses that would otherwise be socially unacceptable to express.
Liberal women are the active, driving force behind hatred of Sarah Palin, while liberal men's behavior is passive and manipulative. In this respect, feminism has succeeded in reversing the traditional sexual stereotypes. If this is the result, you have to wonder why anyone would have bothered."
If your comment about being careful as to whom we promote as leaders was directed at my comments... be assured that was not my intent here. That's a whole separate issue.
ReplyDeleteLuther ... to be honest, Palin tires me, bores me to tears. There is no there there. If she is what we call a "leader" today, we're f**ked.
ReplyDeleteRe: Andrew Sullivan ...do you really know anyone who pays a whit of attention to that girlish dweeb? On a scale of 1 to 10, his opinions are about -5 in importance.
Palin's "raw deal" has made her a multi-millionaire (she's the Lady Gaga of conservative politics) ... a rather big step up from her expressed pecuniary reason for quitting the governorship of Alaska. She revels in her abuse, and can't stop talking about it. Watch her "reality show" ... see how many times she refers to her victim hood. Every episode, multiple times.
Tell me who and what you think Palin would be today if John McCain had not nominated her in 2008?
The only "six" Palin has is her own. Any semblance to JFK's ideals would be contrived ... just what has she done in her life to understand those ideals? Why does she contrive this "frontier woman" facade that is ludicrous?
Now back to ....
imgw:"http://images.clipartof.com/small/5690-Gagged-Man-With-Tape-Over-His-Mouth-Poster-Art-Print.jpg"
Luther # 48 ... no, my comment was not about your comments. I mean it literally, that we generally seem to select leaders superficially. At this rate Kim Kardashian will be President one day ... style over substance.
ReplyDeleteI am all for public discourse. On that topic I actually think the "left" dislikes Palin because she is so much like them ... how dare she gain fame and fortune (just like them) by being all mouth no grit experience!?
If this becomes the "norm" for leadership of both parties, what then? We elevate mediocrity and pay the price. I don't see much difference, really, between Pelosi and Palin. Neither is brilliant, but both are cunning (big difference) and happily dictatorial when they can get away with it.
Yes, both sides are to blame. Don't forget how Hillary was pilloried (sorry, couldn't resist) in 2008.
ReplyDeleteI think this is what the average American is so sick of. The rhetoric, the ridiculous candidates being offered up for election, our inept, self-aggrandizing congress. It's disheartening. No, it's more than that, it's infuriating.
Nope. No Palin-bashing here.
ReplyDeleteRuh roh! Someone didn't get the memo. Silly rednecks.
/grinning at aridog...
Tag! You're it! :D
I think you're going to get Aridog's blood pressure rising, lady red!
ReplyDeletePalin & Huckabee - no way.
I would love to have Mitt Romney on the ticket for 2012. He and Giuliani were my choices for the Republican nomination last go 'round.
Funny how if you Google "Batsh*t Crazy", images or web, how many references you get to Mizz Wasilla.
ReplyDeleteAs far as the number or articles about Barbie .... impossible for that to happen if not instigated or invited. Impossible ... she DOES know how to "work" the media, and the frothing pundits therein, and even how to play the "defiant victim" role ... all the better to enhance her everyone-loves-the-underdog schtick.
One of her best lines yet ..." I won't shut up!" utter this week. Uh, did anyone in the solar system think she would shut up and needed to be reminded?
In summary, I'd prefer something other than noise in a candidate. As I've said before, we already have the rhetoric king in office now. How's that workin' out fer ya?
Tag, you're it! :-*
Question:
ReplyDeleteHave we, as a democracy, reached that point where no truly creative, skilled, and inspired leaders can arise? Tell me, among the recent batches of candidates over the past dozen years, who among them would you let run your checking and savings accounts? Let alone your house, or the fookin' country?
Have we achieved the inevitable, in our search for "purity" in candidates? Anyone with actual enduring skills will have some warts and scars. However, today it seems only the village idiots can run, dares run, or cares to run, for office.
Marco Rubio, Paul Ryan, Allan West, there are good people out there, IMO.
ReplyDeleteFlorie ... I know about Allen West, not so much about Rubio or Ryan. West has leadership skills and experience and seems inclined to conservative values. However, none of those have been "tested" on the national stage .... e.g., had their closets vetted for skeletons, real or presumed or merely alleged.
ReplyDeleteIn today's political climate military men & women are subject to intense scrutiny for "proper" behavior in essentially "civilian" terms. Formal charges are brought on hearsay alone (think the Sgt Nazario case, among many others) and occasionally convictions are meted out.
In this "new" world it is likely that WWII (Band of Brothers) Major Richard Winters might have been charged with war crimes, and Lt Col Ronald Speirs definitely would have been. Given this environment, I am uncertain how Allen West can stand up politically to the bleeding hearts who've never been in harm's way.
But I can hope for the best. AS I said earlier here, the best leaders will have some warts and scars. Those pretenders who do not have never done anything.
Childishly ridiculous and transparent: No Palin February.
ReplyDeleteIf excoriating Palin on a daily basis doesn't do the job, erase her!
It never even occurs to these so-called "journalists" to cover Palin as they would any other news story. They are incapable, hamstrung by their own frenzied politics and their pathetic need to "fit in" with the kewl kidz.
I'm declaring February "No Milbank" month. Who's with me? Gee, doesn't that sound stupid?
Tag. ;;)
Lady Red ....ah ha, perhaps a leftie has figured out Palin's schtick ... the more they write about her, the more attention she gets overall. I know many folks don't believe me, but Palin's attention whoring is legendary, IMO. Those pundits who've "excoriated" her delight her, trust me on that...they hand her a bully pulpit. Victim-hood sells.
ReplyDeleteAll that would be good ...IF she had anything else to offer than talk.
BTW ... Every month is "no Milbank" month around here.
Tag, you're it, again :D
"How in the world does an author get a "more government" call from "ask not what your country can do for you [more government], but what you can do for your country [participation in Exceptionalism]?"
ReplyDeleteIf Ronald Reagan or George W. Bush had said that, the quote would be used as an example of their fascism -- how all the people would be little cogs in furthering an evil government. I do not believe that is the way Kennedy meant it. I think it is an inspiring quote. However, the left brought this on. They just don't like playing by the rules they wrote.