Is it really a cultural issue? Hispanics are rooted in the same "community first" mindset, but there was still rampant looting in Chile. Americans tend to navigate with a "me first" rudder, but yet we've seen many examples of massive flooding with no looting or bad behavior (think of flooding along the upper Mississippi).
I personally think that the reason Japan appears so well-mannered is because they are a homogeneous society. The same thing may hold true here in the US; any time a community is fractured by racial/ethnic/cultural subgroups, I think the risk for hooliganism grows exponentially.
I think it has to do with honor. One of my best friends from home is from Japan, honor runs deep with her, as with her family. I think children in Japan are taught that since birth, to honor their elders then that honor goes to others.
I personally think that the reason Japan appears so well-mannered is because they are a homogeneous society. The same thing may hold true here in the US; any time a community is fractured by racial/ethnic/cultural subgroups, I think the risk for hooliganism grows exponentially. That's a great point, lady red. There are no "projects", barrios, muslim enclaves, etc. Watch out, we will be labeled racists! But you're right, Japan is a fairly closed society (I don't know if I'm using the right expression there). I still think their entrenched tradition of face - or honor, as Pamela put it - is what guides their behavior.
lewy has been a bit swamped with move / selling house / etc.
I think if you asked the Japanese themselves, they'd basically say that it's a matter of identity - looting is just not what they're about. It ain't how they roll.
Identity is a factor in every culture but it is extremely strong in Japanese culture, which managed to retain its "exceptionalism" even after being (forcibly) shorn of its "supremacist" tendencies.
I'd add one other hypothesis - this is half-assed speculation here...
...the Edo period starting in the very early 1600s when power was (finally!) centralized in Edo (modern Tokyo) by a strong shogunate. Before that was a long period of civil war between princes (think Machiavelli's Italy). Chronic regional wars meant bandits and brigands were rampant.
In contrast, the shogun ran a proto-totalitarian state, complete with internal spy agency / security forces, national police force, etc... the order imposed was welcomed after the chronic wars, the central force enjoyed substantial popular legitimacy, and if you didn't like it, too f**king bad, Toshi!
The shogunate was replaced with a strong Emperor / professional bureaucratic state modeled on Prussia in the late 1800s - this is of course the Meiji period. The central state was no less strong, no less legitimate, and dissent was no better tolerated.
And we know how that system evolved...
(Much of the political turmoil of the late '20s and early '30s Imperial Japan, e.g. the ni ni roku incident, etc, had to do with who could be the more ardent nationalist, who should be attacked first, etc... the fundamentals of the system were never in question).
So, it's a little creepy to think about, but IMHO the good social behavior of the Japanese is in some small way attributable to the cultural impact of four solid centuries of a strong totalitarian state. There is no notion of "limited government" in Japan, and concepts like "due process" are a bit alien.
Thanks, lewy; interesting, as always. What do you mean, their "supremacist" tendencies were forcibly taken? You mean their want to stay a closed society?
I didn't know you were moving, are you going north (I hope)? Have you had offers on the house? I commiserate with you on selling your place during this stagnant market. Is your move work-related? Is your wife excited about it?
I'm interested to see that the BC (British Columbia) forest industry is stepping up to the mark and arranging for shipments of lumber to build temporary shelters for the homeless. The problem is, of course, that the lumber will take quite a while to get there. After that there will be massive rebuilding, a lot of it wood frame. The markets have noted this and forest industry shares are rising.
Before my current job, I worked for a forest industry Trade Association and we maintained an office in Tokyo (the Association still does). The relationship between the Japanese government, construction industry, house builders etc. with the BC forest industry was and is extremely strong. I'm glad to see that the industry is reaching out with assistance.
The move is intra-city. We're renting a place in town before we (maybe) buy a condo. The house sale is a clusterf**k, even more than usual, but it looks like it will go through. It is kinda work related - our life used to be 'burban, (heh - it's a joke - get it? 'burban? lewy14? Never mind)... now it's centered in the city. We do have a few friends up your ways - including you! - and are meaning to get up there Real Soon Now (for like the last few years...) We're really looking forward to hanging out (and maybe keep going towards Matt'nfayistan!), but don't leave the lights on for us just yet...
With respect to the Japanese, my comment about their having their supremacists tendencies forcibly removed was a reference to their absolute defeat / unconditional surrender in WWII. They were pretty much convinced that it was their divine destiny to be The Boss of All Of You (Asians). MacArthur et al disabused them of this notion.
On the topic of the original post - yes, there is no looting - and the Japanese culture handles some aspects of a disaster like this with enviable grace... but other aspects, not so much.
My wife saw this story and commented that this is not a characteristic or failure of this particular government; her view was that this kind of basic failure was culturally intrinsic.
---
I mentioned a few days ago that I had a friend who was scheduled to visit family in Tokyo. She said at the beginning of the weeks that she was still going. She's now sounding just slightly hesitant in an email, asking me to keep her appraised of my reading of the news, and my opinion. She leaves Saturday.
This is a tough call. I have to weigh this one carefully - I don't want to tell her directly to bail out, but I don't want to regret not being candid.
I actually hope events on Friday make my job harder: in other words, I hope the situation looks like it's turning around. If it becomes a "no brainer" tomorrow, it can only be bad.
So I wrote an email to my Japanese friend headed for Tokyo.
I have some practice from speaking to and writing to my in-laws, and their friends... I don't speak Japanese but my wife tells me I can compose near pitch-perfect nihonjin-speak when I have to - in other words, using the right level of indirection, implication and deference. Not saying at all what you mean, and still sort of conveying it.
I wrote a bunch but basically I said "don't go". But I didn't say it directly.
Now, if she decides not to go, it can be her own decision. And if she decides to go, I don't lose face by having my advice ignored. See how it works?
So my next letter was to a realtor (not mine) and what I wanted to say was F*&^% you you miserable f&*%^&*%^ [cee word].
So actually my previous letter to my japanese friend was good practice, so I could be indirect and polite enough in my realtor letter not to require lawyers, guns and money (which would have been needed if I'd let her know what I was really thinking).
They are a polite culture, "face" is everything. I've always admired their innovation and toughness.
ReplyDeleteHow they are holding up as a people is a tribute to their culture.
Is it really a cultural issue? Hispanics are rooted in the same "community first" mindset, but there was still rampant looting in Chile. Americans tend to navigate with a "me first" rudder, but yet we've seen many examples of massive flooding with no looting or bad behavior (think of flooding along the upper Mississippi).
ReplyDeleteI personally think that the reason Japan appears so well-mannered is because they are a homogeneous society. The same thing may hold true here in the US; any time a community is fractured by racial/ethnic/cultural subgroups, I think the risk for hooliganism grows exponentially.
I think it has to do with honor. One of my best friends from home is from Japan, honor runs deep with her, as with her family. I think children in Japan are taught that since birth, to honor their elders then that honor goes to others.
ReplyDeleteI personally think that the reason Japan appears so well-mannered is because they are a homogeneous society. The same thing may hold true here in the US; any time a community is fractured by racial/ethnic/cultural subgroups, I think the risk for hooliganism grows exponentially.
ReplyDeleteThat's a great point, lady red. There are no "projects", barrios, muslim enclaves, etc. Watch out, we will be labeled racists! But you're right, Japan is a fairly closed society (I don't know if I'm using the right expression there). I still think their entrenched tradition of face - or honor, as Pamela put it - is what guides their behavior.
I'm a little surprised lewy hasn't weighed in.
lewy has been a bit swamped with move / selling house / etc.
ReplyDeleteI think if you asked the Japanese themselves, they'd basically say that it's a matter of identity - looting is just not what they're about. It ain't how they roll.
Identity is a factor in every culture but it is extremely strong in Japanese culture, which managed to retain its "exceptionalism" even after being (forcibly) shorn of its "supremacist" tendencies.
I'd add one other hypothesis - this is half-assed speculation here...
...the Edo period starting in the very early 1600s when power was (finally!) centralized in Edo (modern Tokyo) by a strong shogunate. Before that was a long period of civil war between princes (think Machiavelli's Italy). Chronic regional wars meant bandits and brigands were rampant.
In contrast, the shogun ran a proto-totalitarian state, complete with internal spy agency / security forces, national police force, etc... the order imposed was welcomed after the chronic wars, the central force enjoyed substantial popular legitimacy, and if you didn't like it, too f**king bad, Toshi!
The shogunate was replaced with a strong Emperor / professional bureaucratic state modeled on Prussia in the late 1800s - this is of course the Meiji period. The central state was no less strong, no less legitimate, and dissent was no better tolerated.
And we know how that system evolved...
(Much of the political turmoil of the late '20s and early '30s Imperial Japan, e.g. the ni ni roku incident, etc, had to do with who could be the more ardent nationalist, who should be attacked first, etc... the fundamentals of the system were never in question).
So, it's a little creepy to think about, but IMHO the good social behavior of the Japanese is in some small way attributable to the cultural impact of four solid centuries of a strong totalitarian state. There is no notion of "limited government" in Japan, and concepts like "due process" are a bit alien.
Thanks, lewy; interesting, as always. What do you mean, their "supremacist" tendencies were forcibly taken? You mean their want to stay a closed society?
ReplyDeleteI didn't know you were moving, are you going north (I hope)? Have you had offers on the house? I commiserate with you on selling your place during this stagnant market. Is your move work-related? Is your wife excited about it?
Sorry for all the questions, I guess I'm nosey...
I'm interested to see that the BC (British Columbia) forest industry is stepping up to the mark and arranging for shipments of lumber to build temporary shelters for the homeless. The problem is, of course, that the lumber will take quite a while to get there. After that there will be massive rebuilding, a lot of it wood frame. The markets have noted this and forest industry shares are rising.
ReplyDeleteBefore my current job, I worked for a forest industry Trade Association and we maintained an office in Tokyo (the Association still does). The relationship between the Japanese government, construction industry, house builders etc. with the BC forest industry was and is extremely strong. I'm glad to see that the industry is reaching out with assistance.
hi flo,
ReplyDeleteThe move is intra-city. We're renting a place in town before we (maybe) buy a condo. The house sale is a clusterf**k, even more than usual, but it looks like it will go through. It is kinda work related - our life used to be 'burban, (heh - it's a joke - get it? 'burban? lewy14? Never mind)... now it's centered in the city. We do have a few friends up your ways - including you! - and are meaning to get up there Real Soon Now (for like the last few years...) We're really looking forward to hanging out (and maybe keep going towards Matt'nfayistan!), but don't leave the lights on for us just yet...
With respect to the Japanese, my comment about their having their supremacists tendencies forcibly removed was a reference to their absolute defeat / unconditional surrender in WWII. They were pretty much convinced that it was their divine destiny to be The Boss of All Of You (Asians). MacArthur et al disabused them of this notion.
On the topic of the original post - yes, there is no looting - and the Japanese culture handles some aspects of a disaster like this with enviable grace... but other aspects, not so much.
My wife saw this story and commented that this is not a characteristic or failure of this particular government; her view was that this kind of basic failure was culturally intrinsic.
---
I mentioned a few days ago that I had a friend who was scheduled to visit family in Tokyo. She said at the beginning of the weeks that she was still going. She's now sounding just slightly hesitant in an email, asking me to keep her appraised of my reading of the news, and my opinion. She leaves Saturday.
This is a tough call. I have to weigh this one carefully - I don't want to tell her directly to bail out, but I don't want to regret not being candid.
I actually hope events on Friday make my job harder: in other words, I hope the situation looks like it's turning around. If it becomes a "no brainer" tomorrow, it can only be bad.
"heh - it's a joke - get it? 'burban? lewy14?"
ReplyDeleteGroan.
So I wrote an email to my Japanese friend headed for Tokyo.
ReplyDeleteI have some practice from speaking to and writing to my in-laws, and their friends... I don't speak Japanese but my wife tells me I can compose near pitch-perfect nihonjin-speak when I have to - in other words, using the right level of indirection, implication and deference. Not saying at all what you mean, and still sort of conveying it.
I wrote a bunch but basically I said "don't go". But I didn't say it directly.
Now, if she decides not to go, it can be her own decision. And if she decides to go, I don't lose face by having my advice ignored. See how it works?
Ugh. I really really hate moving. I hope everything goes semi-smoothly for you 'burban lewy14. (heh. good one!)
ReplyDeleteThanks for the insight on the Japanese culture. It sounds confusing, but our topsy-turvy mesh of cultures probably confounds the Japanese too. ;)
thanks lady red.
ReplyDeleteSo my next letter was to a realtor (not mine) and what I wanted to say was F*&^% you you miserable f&*%^&*%^ [cee word].
So actually my previous letter to my japanese friend was good practice, so I could be indirect and polite enough in my realtor letter not to require lawyers, guns and money (which would have been needed if I'd let her know what I was really thinking).