Conserving, celebrating, and contributing to the excellence that is Western Civilization.
Sunday, May 9, 2010
The Politics Of Immigration Law
Debra Saunders at Rasmussen Reports talks about how the new Arizona bill is not only good law, but, despite the mewlings of the press and many politicians, good politics.
The main disagreement I have with her is over racial profiling.
Honest question. Though as my comment went on you'll have to look for it. :)
I'm beyond tired of many terms that are in common play as to how American society, and certain segments thereof, are this, that, or the other.
How is/will, what I think is a genetically based, induced, and required tribal survivalist behavior, substantiated by experience, going to be eradicated?
A good majority of it is cultural. Which is my particular weakness. I mean, ask me about Rap. Or ask me about the guy in the next lane who has tattoos on 95% of his body, his car speakers pounding out the beat, his head only high enough in the seat to barely see the road. Really, do you expect me to believe he has the best interests of this country as his guiding light?
I'm not a bad person. Have always been and still see myself as open minded. But there are too many interest groups anymore for me to give a shit about any of them, frankly.
DwT. I don't disagree with your concerns about how this new Arizona law could be abused. But what the fuck are we going to do?
Thanks, DwT. I did miss it. And I should have been clearer that my question wasn't specifically directed at you but at a broader society that needs to come to terms with what works in law enforcement. And what works is 'profiling', at least to a degree. Yes, it is, or can be, a heinous practice. My point was that it is also human nature since the time of more than one tribe. It's a gray area, I think, not black and white as most seem to think it is.
Luther said: "I mean, ask me about Rap. Or ask me about the guy in the next lane who has .... his car speakers pounding out the beat, his head only high enough in the seat to barely see the road"
As I am sure I have mentioned before, the REAL ID Act goes in to effect in less than 8 months. Then, theoretically, everyone will need to have ID compliant with a national criteria.
How many folks do you know who even know about the Act?
4 States and 4 Canadian Provinces have also already developed Driver's Licenses, or non-driver ID cards, that comply with both of the above? What is your state or province doing?
Just what is wrong with local police asking for proof of who you are and where you belong? You are free to move about, but it's a reasonable expectation of your neighbors nationwide that you be able to identify yourself.
If unreasonable profiling occurs, address it in the courts at the time it occurs, don't predict it as a matter of course. Not all profiling is unreasonable, depending upon your location. Where I live Arabs are far more likely to be profiled than Hispanics.
Is that a bad idea? Let's see now...the little counterfeit passport and SSN card,( etc. etc.) "factory" used by some of the 9/11 pilots was found right here. We've had several Hezbollah sponsors flee the country when discovered. We've had a nice CIA and FBI agent who turned out to be illegal, and related to a Hezbollah sponsor.
Times have changed since I was a kid in the 40's and 50's, our borders, among the longest in the world, are porous and obviously violated regularly. We have a nationwide network of highways to utilize now, not to mention more airports and flights. Not all of the violators are innocents. How many can we afford to ignore?
Doesn't both me to show ID when asked. I had to do it every day, several times a day, for 15 years while working in the federal building. The probable cause? I was standing there, breathing. I lived.
As you, Ari, I've carried ID since I had one. My SSN when I was 12 on my first 'real' job. Never without since. Though true, it's not required. But it makes life so much simpler. Profiling as example. Yes, one has every right to not carry ID. But I, as a law officer, when I pull you over for that brake light out (in hope of a drug bust, of course), what do I think? Is that an abnormal thought, that one, from the cop? When the one he stops is driving without ID? Shouldn't he be doing his duty when he asks more questions?
Ah, it's a big ol' complicated subject. I read your 'real ID' wiki link. I can see a little of both sides on that one. Though why the hell the Sierra Club should be filing suit is beyond me.
Bottom line, it's all political fodder.
One should be proud to be a citizen, a green card holder, whatever the hell other classifications there are to be legal here. Wear it on your forehead.
As for the 'rent seekers'. Shut the fuck up and make something of yourself. If you have enough smarts to be aggrieved you have enough smarts to live the dream.
Honest question. Though as my comment went on you'll have to look for it. :)
ReplyDeleteI'm beyond tired of many terms that are in common play as to how American society, and certain segments thereof, are this, that, or the other.
How is/will, what I think is a genetically based, induced, and required tribal survivalist behavior, substantiated by experience, going to be eradicated?
A good majority of it is cultural. Which is my particular weakness. I mean, ask me about Rap. Or ask me about the guy in the next lane who has tattoos on 95% of his body, his car speakers pounding out the beat, his head only high enough in the seat to barely see the road. Really, do you expect me to believe he has the best interests of this country as his guiding light?
I'm not a bad person. Have always been and still see myself as open minded. But there are too many interest groups anymore for me to give a shit about any of them, frankly.
DwT. I don't disagree with your concerns about how this new Arizona law could be abused. But what the fuck are we going to do?
Look, I'm the drunk uncle.
ReplyDeleteIgnore, distant from, delete, whatever from me.
I may belong nowhere. I'll live with that.
Luther, you missed it by a bit.
ReplyDeleteThere was a line in Ms Saunders piece about about her concern over racial profiling, and that is what I disagreed with.
My concern over any abuse caused by the Arizona law is the abuse that is being piled on Arizona itself.
Thanks, DwT. I did miss it. And I should have been clearer that my question wasn't specifically directed at you but at a broader society that needs to come to terms with what works in law enforcement. And what works is 'profiling', at least to a degree. Yes, it is, or can be, a heinous practice. My point was that it is also human nature since the time of more than one tribe. It's a gray area, I think, not black and white as most seem to think it is.
ReplyDeleteLuther said: "I mean, ask me about Rap. Or ask me about the guy in the next lane who has .... his car speakers pounding out the beat, his head only high enough in the seat to barely see the road"
ReplyDeleteDude! When did you move to Detroit?
As I am sure I have mentioned before, the REAL ID Act goes in to effect in less than 8 months. Then, theoretically, everyone will need to have ID compliant with a national criteria.
ReplyDeleteHow many folks do you know who even know about the Act?
REAL ID Act
How many of them actually know there is an inexpensive ID available for citizens already?
PASS Card
4 States and 4 Canadian Provinces have also already developed Driver's Licenses, or non-driver ID cards, that comply with both of the above? What is your state or province doing?
Just what is wrong with local police asking for proof of who you are and where you belong? You are free to move about, but it's a reasonable expectation of your neighbors nationwide that you be able to identify yourself.
If unreasonable profiling occurs, address it in the courts at the time it occurs, don't predict it as a matter of course. Not all profiling is unreasonable, depending upon your location. Where I live Arabs are far more likely to be profiled than Hispanics.
Is that a bad idea? Let's see now...the little counterfeit passport and SSN card,( etc. etc.) "factory" used by some of the 9/11 pilots was found right here. We've had several Hezbollah sponsors flee the country when discovered. We've had a nice CIA and FBI agent who turned out to be illegal, and related to a Hezbollah sponsor.
Times have changed since I was a kid in the 40's and 50's, our borders, among the longest in the world, are porous and obviously violated regularly. We have a nationwide network of highways to utilize now, not to mention more airports and flights. Not all of the violators are innocents. How many can we afford to ignore?
Doesn't both me to show ID when asked. I had to do it every day, several times a day, for 15 years while working in the federal building. The probable cause? I was standing there, breathing. I lived.
Luther said: "But there are too many interest groups anymore for me to give a shit about any of them, frankly."
ReplyDeletePardon my French, but that qualifies in the "No Shit Sherlock" category. So many now that the distinctions vanish in the morass.
I no longer give a damn about this or that wailing group of rent seekers....they're no longer about civil rights, they're a growth business.
Screw 'em all.
"I no longer give a damn about this or that wailing group of rent seekers....they're no longer about civil rights, they're a growth business."
ReplyDeleteI agree wholeheartedly. I'm sick to death of it.
"Ich bin ein Dertroiter"
ReplyDeleteAs you, Ari, I've carried ID since I had one. My SSN when I was 12 on my first 'real' job. Never without since. Though true, it's not required. But it makes life so much simpler. Profiling as example. Yes, one has every right to not carry ID. But I, as a law officer, when I pull you over for that brake light out (in hope of a drug bust, of course), what do I think? Is that an abnormal thought, that one, from the cop? When the one he stops is driving without ID? Shouldn't he be doing his duty when he asks more questions?
Ah, it's a big ol' complicated subject. I read your 'real ID' wiki link. I can see a little of both sides on that one. Though why the hell the Sierra Club should be filing suit is beyond me.
Bottom line, it's all political fodder.
One should be proud to be a citizen, a green card holder, whatever the hell other classifications there are to be legal here. Wear it on your forehead.
As for the 'rent seekers'. Shut the fuck up and make something of yourself. If you have enough smarts to be aggrieved you have enough smarts to live the dream.