Monday, April 12, 2010

A Call To Arms?

Conservative state legislators and Tea Party leaders in Oklahoma are contemplating forming a volunteer militia to "help defend against what they believe are improper federal infringements on state sovereignty".

Thus far, the discussions have been exploratory. Even the proponents say they don't know how an armed force would be organized nor how a state-based militia could block federal mandates.

Whoa Nelly!  This scares the crap out of me.  The states have the National Guard; if THOSE guys aren't with you, you're screwed anyway.

This is a time for cool heads;  I hope the folks in Oklahoma take a deep breath.  Let's solve this mess with measured debate and the ballot box, not guns. 

Thoughts, anyone?


  1. I also think that many Americans are armed to the teeth already; most wouldn't join a "militia" and risk being targeted by the FBI and HS.

    Oklahoma will be left with a motley collection of nuts who want to play soldier. It's a recipe for disaster, and a damn bad idea.

  2. Anyone who goes to a Tea Party event is probably being targeted by the FI and the HS.

    As for the idea: I remember a few years ago when people were scandalized to find that the US Military had plans for invading Canada. So what? If Canada were taken over by a violent despot, you don't want to wait until then before you plan what you can do about it.

    This talk could just be to explore the possibility. They may look at it and say, "No."

    You also must consider what kind of spin is being put on this by the MSM.

  3. A independent militia is "unregulated" and is against the law if it advocates in any way violence against the government. See Law Reference Here and Related Law Notes Here.

    Lady Red is correct: "It's a recipe for disaster, and a damn bad idea."

  4. "The silence is deafening."

    I agree with you agreeing with me. :D

    Seriously though, I really am wondering what everyone else thinks of the events in Oklahoma.

    Matt thinks that the MSM may have put a spin on it, but this story was all over the conservative blogs and news outlets.

  5. Aridog, do you think the FBI and HS are bothering to gather info on the millions of tea party attendees?

    If so, the agents collecting the intelligence are gonna be bored to tears. Good grief.

  6. Lady I do not think the FBI and DHS are gathedring info on all Tea Party attendees.

    Whack jobs like the Oklahoma bunch and the Hutaree here...yeah, they do.

    And they should, it is a crime as illustrated in the links I posted.

    The entire basis for founding the USA as a Republic was to avoid the necessity to use violence for regime change. Those who advocate it are either blow hards or flat out un-American in any sense fo the word.

  7. Yep. Like I said, measured debate and the ballot box.

    We nearly destroyed our country once by opposing sides blasting each other to smithereens. I don't want to see a repeat of that carnage.

    Guns are for hunting game and defending one's home, not shooting at political enemies (or, heaven forbid, our own soldiers). The people in Oklahoma who are advocating armed response against the federal gov't are loopy. And dangerous.

    I want no part of it.

  8. There are and have been well run militias around the country for years. They're made up of just regular people - firefighters, police, businessmen, etc. There's even a website that tells the basics of how to organize a militia in a way that makes sense. Sometimes they meet together with other groups. One website is
    They aren't on the radar because they aren't breaking any laws.
    But they've been around for awhile. They train and practice and just about about life without any grand plans to blow up the planet.
    It's a media-propagated myth that all militias are bad and made up of white supremacists or some such thing.
    Founding fathers were pretty clear - the militia is supposed to be made up of every responsible able-bodied citizen who can handle a firearm safely.

  9. The first rule of Fight Club is that you don't talk about Fight Club.

  10. Monkeyweather: Okay, you say there are numerous private unregulated "legitimate militias".

    What is the reason for existing? What is their purpose? How are they organized? How do they regulate themselves? How do they train? Who are they purportedly protecting?

    I ask because in my life I've never run across any "militias" that were not wacko...with an avowed purpose to apply violence to their oposition. In short, they do their opposition a favor by running off at the mouth.

    Enlighten me. A website or link will do fine. For now. I am v-e-r-y dubious.

    If they espouse use of violence against government or anyone else for the purpose of political change, they are breaking federal law.

  11. MW...I've looked at the AWRM site and its very well parsed piece, with links to some less well cloaked...including at least one connected to Mark Koernke, a convicted felon (assault of police).

    There's a lot of talk about "protecting liberty" but little detail. It's the details I am interested in...given I've worn the uniform of the USA and know what it is like at both ends of the gun.

  12. I saw one featured just last week on ABC News

    Here is their main website: The Idaho Light Foot Militia

    I don't have a problem with law-abiding militias. Quite the contrary. I find the notion that only the government is capable of forming, monitoring, and controlling an army to be contrary to what our very country is supposed to be about.

    I know if I listen to a Janet Napolitano type I will hear about how dangerous and untrustworthy everyone outside the government is, but I do believe it is the government itself that is more inclined to being a danger to the liberty of the citizenry.

    Came by that notion through the reading of treatises by the likes of Thomas Jefferson. Looks to me like he had the right of it. All this squawking from Homeland Security about how Tea Partiers, veterans, constitutionalists, abortion opponents, (etc...) are terrorists showed me this invasive government is getting scared that citizens are reaching the upper limits of their patience.

  13. MW...I have a prolbme with the import of these words:

    "The Militia, as you have just learned, is a "citizens army" made up of the "whole of the people" for the purpose of guarding against "betrayal by their representatives," to "afford complete security against the invasions of public liberty by the national authority," and if either occurs it is their right, their duty, "to throw off such a government, and to provide new guards for their future security.""

    The words, and some of the qwuotes are rooted in the Federalist Papers. However, specifically, in 21st century terms, what does " throw off such a government"...mean? What means are implied? The ballot box or the gun?

  14. The first rule of Fight Club is that you don't talk about Fight Club.hehe :OD

    Aridog, I'd suppose since the info on awrm is open and free, there's gonna be some folks using it that are rather inflammatory in their speech, and some folks that are just cuckoos. Just the odds....
    I don't mind the inflammatory speech - I know people are ticked off and they do have the right of freedom of speech. Of course, cuckoos are unfortunate but whaddya gonna do? They're out there!

  15. Please understand me...I am trying to illuminate a bit of how some (perhaps not all) of these groups make dolts like Napolitano sound credible. There are only 3 conditions under whihc the federal government can "federalize" the state National Guard untis....and the threat of armed insurrection is one of them. That's the "regulated" part.

    I note with some dispair that the websites seem infatuated with the word "Unregulated." Who leds them? Who decides when to act and what actions to take? Even a random ban of Apache warriors were lead by someone who made those decisions. Who is it here?

  16. MW said: "Aridog, I'd suppose since the info on awrm is open and free..."

    If you dig in to the deeper links, the info is hardly free...costing anywhere from $1 to $500+ per year for various levels of "membership."

    Unfortunately for me, and by their design, I'm not about to drop $500 to find out what the "Gold" level "Patriot" is supposed to be.

    On the "Assault Web" site there is considerable latrine lawyer talk about what a "militia" is or isn't.

    It all boils back down to one thing: If they are aggrieved, specificaly what is it, what actions, do they propise as remedy?

  17. It's pick on Monkeyweather night :-P

    MW said: "I don't mind the inflammatory speech - I know people are ticked off and they do have the right of freedom of speech. Of course, cuckoos are unfortunate but whaddya gonna do? They're out there!"

    Yes they are, and very near where I live. How do yo feel aboout black men, muslims converted in prison, forming a private unregulated militia?

    I mean like the one whose leader shot and killed an FBI K9 dog ("Freddy" may he RIP) and fired on agents, dying in a fusilade of 21+ rounds as a result. That was 4 blocks from my house. CAIR (of course) and sundry other usual suspects are now going to spend a ton to tax dollars arguing about "justice."...never mind I don't know one muslim neighbor who gave a damn about the Afro Imam.

  18. G-d damn the Blogger grue. It just ate my explanation of where I DO see a need for "militia' in urban environemts, unfettered by wanna be rambo antics and poltical angst and jargon.

    I will try again later this morning.

  19. Monkeyweather (and others who've just lurked on this thread)....

    Now that I've pounded on "militias" and wanna be Rambos per se...let me explain where I do believe orderly, disciplined, adult urban & suburban militias can be helpful, even necessary. There can be no distinctive clothing, just everyday urban & suburban wear, and NO political angst and ranting, just neighborhood personal defense purpose, when and if the authorities cannot provide it due to ambivalence or being overwhelmed. They must be extremely tight lipped, and extremely willing to accede to auhorities when law and order is restored....they must be able to fade away more orless.

    I've seen it first hand in 1967. Those riots were essentially black on black, and even the block clubs who tried to resist the insanity were overwhelmed. Neighborhood homes and businessess owned by blacks and/or whites were targeted indiscriminately during that affair It is that phenomena I suggest can be improved. I've seen it in RVN long ago and I see vestigages of it locally today, within a few blocks of my home in fact. In 1967 I drove past an M-48 Tank machine gunning a building with a 50 caliber, to suppress a sniper, while I drove to and from work. it was bizzare, like unreal, but there it was...soldiers firing rifles, tanks firing in the middle of large city. The bullet pock marks were not imaginary. Little did I know then I'd see it again half a world away.

    The Afro Imam with the prison bred insurrectionist bent, who was killed by FBI and AFT, plus the youth gang realated shooting of school kids at a bus stop last summer, are examples that made national news. Not a single witness will step up in the bus stop shooting, a few blocks away, even though two of the perpetrators where apprehended, then release due to lack of witness support. Fear rules. Urban gangs are a prime example of the threat. The Afro Imam affair was even closer, just 4 blocks away. The skulking jihadi wanna be with military dress and loaded AK-47 at dusk captured in a family park within 3 blocks of my home is another instance (he was given probation)...there are many others. It is an urban and sub-urban phenomena. Run amok anarchists pose a similar threat in these environments.

    There is a place for unoffical but highly organized militias in this instance, neighborhood miltias, adults, focused on neighborhood protection and without political bent. Emphasis on without political or cultural bent. The groups must have clearly defined rules of engagement, be willing to accede to law enforcement and fade away, when order is restored. They be virtually and literally "invisable." No accouterments of military organization, but with that kind of organization internally none-the-less. Above all else, they must have zipped lips. They are augmentation, not political crusaders. A "neighborhood watch" with teeth. The illegal elements must know they are there, but know nothing waht-so-ever abou thtem otherwise. Deterence. I know of none nearby fully meeting my criteria these days, but there is a core group locally that could evolve in to such a unit, if they can drop the political and cultural rhetoric. I've met with them and know they're not loons with personal illusions of grandure. But they need to drop the counter productive rhetoric and focus on neighorhood and family defense in a back up role. It can be done. It very well may need to be done sooner than later. The trick is to keep the focus personal, not political or cultural, and to support the constituted authorties not fight them.

    If such organizations have a website, it must hue to strictly neighborhood issues and defense, without violent rhetoric. Actions, onlywhen necesary, not words. And they must keep their mouths shut. Period. the ability to fde away is paramount.

    I'd be very interested in what others think about this idea.

  20. Ari, it depends on what you mean by "emphasis on without political or cultural bent."

    The thing is, many communities are culturally homogeneous. Ethnically, even. Politically as well. I don't see that a group of folks who all look the same / talk the same / think the same should be precluded from forming the kind of militia you describe.

    They may be a bit boring - or suspect - by today's multi-culti standards, but homogeneity does not by itself convict one of political motivation when one bands together with the rest of one's community to defend that community.

    But I agree about the silence part - my "Fight Club" comment to monkeyweather was quite serious.

    Folks who yammer on about forming militia against the Federal government are aspiring to be legends in their own minds.

    People who yammer on about the goddam Federal government and who quietly train against the contingency of a breakdown - gradual or sudden - of law and order - well that's fine by me.

  21. Lewy...I have no problem with quiet preparation for neighborhood defense, and stripped bare of blarney, one that doens't include political or cultural is personal to the welfare & safety of neighbors, of what ever political persuasion. The Feds are the least of my worries in a very diverse community, where I am a distinct minority, yet part of the whole and accepted as such. Gunfire nearby is another matter.

  22. Somewhat relevant, and old song, in need of update. I temmber it from the beginning of Desert Storm. Virtually 95% of all of the things portrayed occurred in my lifetime. We Didn't Start the Fire. Another version Here.

    Play it forward....

  23. Excellent video aridog. It's amazing, really.

  24. Lady's another Video/Song from my youth...still reverberates in my mind when I hear people talk about taking up arms. They have no idea but Jim Morrison did.

    The funny thing was that soldiers actually liked the music, felt the conneciton, all the while trying not to be the "Unknown Soldier." It might have been part "Macho" or part "fatalism." I will never know. I only know I was extremely lucky.

    Born in the midst of a global conflagration as "Operation Torch" commenced in Africa to grew up to see my own, watching my mother say goodbye on a dark Thanksgiving night as we boarded a bus...I will never forget it. I am one of those who kissed the tarmac when our Flying Tigers flight landed in the US of A on my way home. It ws good to be here. Still is.

  25. There's a unique link, in my mind, in the video labeled "Video/Song" above, at seconds 00:21-00:25...a little white puppy is cradled in the arms of a GI. I couldn't help noticing it. "The Devil was on the lose"...but the puppy is still there.

    What is it with little white puppies in times like these that men seem to want them, to need them? See below, a soldier in a ,modern war, and one from long ago below the rare instance he ever wore a Class A uniform...and a puppy.



    War and little puppies, somehow they are always there. I even brought one home.